this post was submitted on 04 May 2025
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Nowhere Else To Share

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I didn't know which community to post something in and so here we are.

Please comment if you know a more appropriate community for a post.

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Lemmy voter fraud (ponder.cat)
submitted 1 day ago by PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat to c/nowhereelsetoshare@sh.itjust.works
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So I've noticed that there's a little group of accounts all with the same name, presumably the same person with alts on several instances, and they all like to upvote their own stuff from their other accounts with the same name on other instances (and from other accounts which don't have the same name but seem likely to be the same person). Here's what it looks like. (I have redacted their actual username, since I'm not sure if that is acceptable to post in a bigger and not-drama-centered community.)

Each of these little groupings is multiple votes from accounts with the exact same name, all applied to the same comment within a few minutes of each other from (for example) the programming.dev and slrpnk.net accounts, a little while after the infosec.pub account posted it:

SELECT p.actor_id, cl.score, cl.comment_id, cl.published FROM person p, comment_like cl WHERE p.name = 'redacted' AND cl.person_id = p.id ORDER BY published ASC;
              actor_id              | score | comment_id |           published           
------------------------------------+-------+------------+-------------------------------

(some excerpts:)

 https://infosec.pub/u/redacted     |     1 |    1961075 | 2025-02-22 16:22:56.014731+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1961075 | 2025-02-22 18:00:51.325286+00
 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1961075 | 2025-02-22 18:03:18.236992+00

 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958485 | 2025-02-22 18:03:19.371003+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958485 | 2025-02-22 18:00:50.886344+00
 https://infosec.pub/u/redacted     |     1 |    1958485 | 2025-02-22 11:23:42.226386+00

 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958643 | 2025-02-22 18:03:19.093138+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958643 | 2025-02-22 18:00:50.944788+00
 https://infosec.pub/u/redacted     |     1 |    1958643 | 2025-02-22 11:57:14.571075+00

 https://infosec.pub/u/redacted     |     1 |    1958775 | 2025-02-22 12:18:29.561662+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958775 | 2025-02-22 18:00:51.007097+00
 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958775 | 2025-02-22 18:03:19.019653+00

 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958789 | 2025-02-22 18:03:18.814704+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958789 | 2025-02-22 18:00:51.063719+00
 https://infosec.pub/u/redacted     |     1 |    1958789 | 2025-02-22 12:20:44.963274+00

 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958826 | 2025-02-22 17:59:48.55791+00
 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958826 | 2025-02-22 18:02:49.300343+00

 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958827 | 2025-02-22 18:00:16.302578+00
 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958827 | 2025-02-22 18:03:20.336056+00

 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958832 | 2025-02-22 17:59:48.497287+00
 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958832 | 2025-02-22 18:02:49.359749+00

 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958871 | 2025-02-22 18:02:49.420568+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958871 | 2025-02-22 17:59:48.43862+00

 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958873 | 2025-02-22 17:59:24.697018+00
 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958873 | 2025-02-22 18:04:55.884635+00

 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958875 | 2025-02-22 18:04:55.795094+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958875 | 2025-02-22 17:59:24.792819+00

 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1958877 | 2025-02-22 17:59:24.743799+00
 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1958877 | 2025-02-22 18:04:55.84273+00

 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |    -1 |    1958982 | 2025-02-22 18:00:51.647423+00
 https://infosec.pub/u/redacted     |    -1 |    1958982 | 2025-02-22 12:55:05.047563+00

 https://programming.dev/u/redacted |     1 |    1959091 | 2025-02-22 18:03:18.551263+00
 https://infosec.pub/u/redacted     |     1 |    1959091 | 2025-02-22 12:55:40.650352+00
 https://slrpnk.net/u/redacted      |     1 |    1959091 | 2025-02-22 18:00:51.138157+00

The reason I'm bringing this up:

  1. Isn't this a problem? I get that it's hard (impossible) to prevent this type of thing, but it seems weird that the infosec.pub admins weren't into the idea of it being a problem when I pointed out this super-blatant instance of it to them. I do feel like dealing with blatant Lemmy-fraud when it happens is kind of a good instance hygiene type of thing to do.
  2. You should know that this user also talks pretty constantly about how the Democrats are bad, and anyone who votes for them is a fool, and Kamala Harris was the one who invaded Gaza, and so on. And they like using their multiple alts to upvote that content of their own. I feel like having that confluence pointed out is relevant.
  3. Is there something that I should be doing different than just pinging the admin and then moving on with my life if they don't do anything?

I can't exactly articulate why I feel like this is an issue, but I do. This also doesn't necessarily seem like the right place to post this, but also, I wasn't sure where to post it, and so...

top 16 comments
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[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I've sent out warnings to 10 other users in the past few days about similar behavior already and also banned two users for this type of behavior. one of them appealed and is unbanned again.

I also had this account in my list of such accounts, but I hadn't followed up on it yet, as I figured I'd just deal with the top n users and then review it again at a later point in time.

i've sent them a warning about this as well now that they'll get banned from our instance if they continue engaging in this behavior.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Appreciated. Do you share this with other instance admins?

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

yes, we have a matrix room for coordinated efforts against spam and other types of abuse, which admins are welcome to join.

once lemmy allows reporting user profiles directly this will probably become more likely to reach the instances admins of instances that are less actively maintained as well.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago

Thank you for the hard work.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 2 points 1 day ago

Sounds good to me. They've got some other alts, I think, with different names. They claim that those are friends of their who just really like hopping on and upvoting their content right after they post it, but I'm skeptical. If you want, I can try to take some time to sort out a full list and send who I think might be those accounts.

To get rid of them all is obviously a Sisyphean task but thank you. Like I say, I think most of the reason it's valuable to do is because of the cultural message, not because it will do much to prevent someone shifting to new accounts and doing it again. I do think the cultural thing is important. LMK if you want and I can look more into the actual accounts involved.

[–] Forester@pawb.social 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There is a community for modlogs I'll find and link

[–] Forester@pawb.social 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

https://lemmy.world/c/moderators. Is supposed to be a place for moderators to discuss moderation issues

https://lemmy.sdf.org/c/modabuse

Is supposed to be a place for users to discuss bad moderation

[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 14 points 1 day ago

Use !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

ModAbuse is kind of Wesker's personal soapbox comm and the rest of us are just doing a little trolling. And wesker too does a little trolling. It's a silly place like camelot.

[–] JayDee 8 points 1 day ago

I agree that this should be cracked down on when reported or discovered.

I imagine it wouldn't be hard to find users doing this by just crunching upvote data, but that kind of data analysis might get pretty cumbersome for larger instances.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Just because I thought it was notably super-interesting. Here's the most recent comment that got voter-fraud-ed by this person:

https://ponder.cat/comment/2910556

That one was upvoted from the redacted user's alts on infosec.sub and slrpnk.net, and also one of the other accounts on infosec.pub that I think is an alt for them, and the original comment was posted by another account also hosted on infosec.pub.

And, I think I found a whole new alt account of theirs on infosec.pub, which gave an upvote sandwiched in between a couple of those alt account upvotes all within a few minutes of each other. With the fake upvotes, it's voted at +7/-6. Without the fake upvotes, it would be voted at +3/-6.

Interesting-er and interesting-er. Like I say, there's a certain type of subject matter that seems like it gets consistently fake-upvoted by this user, although they also fake-upvote just random innocuous comments of theirs for reasons I don't really know.

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i've banned all the accounts i could identify as part of this scheme from lemmy.world now.

i originally sent them a warning before i was aware of the scale of this involving a bunch of alts with different usernames. if i had known that when i sent the warning it would've been a ban straight away.

they replied to my warning pretending they didn't know about any recent vote manipulation, so they're clearly not interested in acting in good faith going forward.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 2 points 1 day ago

Sounds good to me. And yes, the whole "I'm going to lie to your face and fuck with your network because at the end of the day what the fuck are you going to do about it? Nothing, that's what" attitude, and its impact on the community, is the reason why I feel like this stuff is worth banning. It's not that any single account ban is bulletproof or anything, but definitely just making it okay and mandating everyone pretend it isn't happening, is 100% not the answer.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This also doesn't necessarily seem like the right place to post this, but also, I wasn't sure where to post it, and so...

Then it was the right place.

I agree that this kind of behaviour goes against the spirit of the threadiverse (or whatever you prefer to call it) but I wonder how it would be combatted? Would each instance admin team have to address it individually?

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 5 points 1 day ago

I think you have to. If you're running an instance, it's your responsibility that bullshit doesn't fly off your instance and affect the rest of the network. That applies to spam, unrepentant disruption of communities, whatever it is.

I think it is impossible to really detect this kind of vote rigging if someone is trying to be stealthy about it, no matter how much database analysis you do. Here's why I think it is a somewhat important thing anyway to get rid of it if someone's being blatant about it: Part of making a good place to be involves aspects that aren't technical. They are cultural. People don't lie, people don't deliberately try to cause damage or distortion. By banning someone who's being overt about rigging votes or lying about it when they're caught, you're sending a message that really needs to be there if you're going to be able to build a good foundation. By allowing it, you instantly engage people's cynicism, and so why bother try to do anything.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 4 points 1 day ago

Be interesting to have software to look for and red flag high vote correlation.

[–] ramble81@lemm.ee 4 points 1 day ago

Eh, votes don’t mean the same thing on Lemmy as they did on Reddit. Some instances won’t even log downvotes so you it isn’t even accurate across the fediverse. You can probably try to talk to the instance admins that they’re on, or the mods of the communities they post to if you really want.