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Zelensky dismisses compromise with Putin, pointing to Prigozhin’s death (www.cnn.com)

submitted 1 year ago by deconstruct@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky has said the death of Yevgeny Prigozhin – the Russian mercenary leader whose plane crashed weeks after he led a mutiny against Moscow’s military leadership – shows what happens when people make deals with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

As Ukraine’s counteroffensive moves into a fourth month, with only modest gains to show so far, Zelensky told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria he rejected suggestions it was time to negotiate peace with the Kremlin.

“When you want to have a compromise or a dialogue with somebody, you cannot do it with a liar,” Volodymyr Zelensky said.

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[-] Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 220 points 1 year ago

Withdrawing troops, returning stolen land, children, prisoners and paying for damages.. thats all i would accept. Nothing less.

[-] A1kmm@lemmy.amxl.com 41 points 1 year ago

A 'Treaty of Versailles' type solution is not a good idea for durable peace though, harsh reparations, despite any sense they might be 'fair', seldom lead to both countries returning to be prosperous democratic countries (and to be clear, neither is a capitulation by Ukraine - that would be seen by Putin as locking in its current gains, with no real incentive not to try again for more despite what the treaty might say).

The best outcome for everyone is if Russia ends up being a genuinely pluralistic democracy (i.e. anyone in Russia can have political views, and the public selects its leadership in free and fair elections). Then Ukraine can normalise relations with Russia, and Russia stops being a threat to democratic institutions across the world as a whole.

I think the best way of thinking about it is not that Ukraine has a Russia problem, but rather that Ukraine and Russia have an oligarch problem (with Putin chief amongst them). Therefore, in a fair world, the oligarchs, and not the Russian people, would pay. It is true that Russians (and indeed some Ukrainians in occupied regions) have been radicalised by the oligarchs, so some kind of deradicalisation would be needed even if the oligarchs disappeared.

Solutions that look to negotiate how to reduce corruption and authoritarianism in Russia from the top are therefore the most likely to succeed long term. Shorter term solutions could include a negotiated end to hostilities coupled with agreements for Ukraine to join a defensive alliance that the oligarchs wouldn't consider provoking - which could be followed up by a carrot approach to easing sanctions in exchange for progressive movements towards genuine Russian democracy. This might give oligarchs enough push to take off ramps to cash in what they have plundered already, and slowly be replaced by less corrupt alternatives going forward.

Recovery from oligarchy for Russia might also by costly for Russia though - essential assets plundered from the USSR are now in private hands through crony capitalism; the best solution would be for many of the major ones to go back to or be rebuilt under state ownership, under genuine democratic leadership. But that is likely easier said than done given the state of Russia.

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[-] Cryan24@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

And Russia Surrenders a 10km deep strip of its own land around Ukraine to act as a DMZ.

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[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 year ago

And a 3rd party enforced DMZ on the border.

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[-] Grant_M@lemmy.ca 146 points 1 year ago

Russia is a terrorist country. Terrorists can't be negotiated with. #SlavaUkraini

[-] sndmn@lemmy.ca 48 points 1 year ago

Russia can't be accepted back into the international community until Putin is in a jail cell or in the ground.

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[-] Veraticus@lib.lgbt 103 points 1 year ago

Lol right? I mean why would literally anyone trust Putin at this point?

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[-] tomatopathe@sh.itjust.works 81 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So from having had a few exchanges with pro Russian accounts on Lemmy (which seems to be infested with a few very active ones) this is a summary of their arguments:

"Ukraine is Nazi"
"Well far right parties got a total of under 6% of the vote, and they elected a Jewish man president"
"yeah but Bandera and whatabout America"

"Ukraine killed ethnic Russians"
"A huge percentage of their population are ethnic Russians, including in government, and they are fine, and were until the Russian invasion. And now it's Russia that has killed, maimed and raped more ethnic Russians, including civilians, than Ukraine every did or even could. Including their own people thorough incompetence and corruption".
"Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America"

"Ukraine is fighting because they are forced to by their colonial masters, the USA and NATO, and Ukrainians will keep dying so long as they keep being armed"
"Actually > 90% of the population wants to continue fighting for their country back, so what you're basically saying is you think Ukrainians should be abandoned to Russian enslavement"
"Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America"

"NATO and USA are colonialists and this is just more colonialism"
"Actually both Russia and China are actual, bone fide land empires, with ethnic minorities that are forced to live like colonized people - including doing the fighting for Russia while their families back home live in misery and squalor and Putin's Mafia collect mansions, private jets and yachts"
"Yeah but Bandera, and whatabout America"

[-] seitanic 47 points 1 year ago

It was an invasion. Invasions are wrong. That should be the beginning and end of the debate.

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[-] Snowpix@lemmy.ca 30 points 1 year ago

I take it you had to deal with the Hexbears? Idiots.

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[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 63 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Very true. Russia (well, putin) has shown over and over that he can't be trusted, he will stab you in the back and he will murder you.

Hell, the entire land grab from Ukraine was going against accords made where Russia promised to allow Ukraine to exist as a sovereign nation and Russia would get all their nukes. Russia got the nukes and theb went on to invade and steal Crimea and then to just drop all pretence and invade the entire Ukraine.

Just give some shitty transparent excuses, mumble something about non existent Nazis, and just steal lands.

So no, you can't make deals with Putin

However, Ukraine is in a tight spot. They still rely on the west (and mostly United States)for the Weapons and gear they use on the war. Russia has the Republican party in their pocket and if the Republican party (or worse trump) wins the election, they'll at the least stop all Help and likely hand the Ukraine to Russia on a silver platter.

This means they basically gotta gain as much as possible before the US elections, which is why they're grinding on so much without the proper air support they'll start having at the end of the year. It sucks, but it's the situation they're in.

It's impressive though to see how much they advance without air support. Slava Ukraine!

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[-] DDNB@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago

His plane "crashed"? You mean after it was shot with AA missiles right?