this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2025
-27 points (11.4% liked)

Programming

24050 readers
503 users here now

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Rules

  • Follow the programming.dev instance rules
  • Keep content related to programming in some way
  • If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev



founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

@programming Unpopular opinion: 95% percent of all modern programming langueges are either bloated/proprietary/unneccesarily complex. pretty sure C & assembly can do it all (even for web development, just compile c to WebAssembly)

top 16 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] vermaterc@lemmy.ml 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

All modern cars are either bloated/proprietery/unneccessarily complex. Pretty sure walking can do it all

[–] 123@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago

They kind of are though... Took a lot of effort to find a recent car to replace one involved in an accident.

From built to fail American and European cars, to useless and distracting touchscreen controls, bloated subscription models for remote start that could be a button on the car keys and other "extras", failing CVTs that are expensive to replace (designed with no reparability like many parts nowadays), literally oil on the timing rubber belts that implode the engine after a few years if you delay expensive maintenance, etc.

Too many issues to list. Even the car we found with a traditional automatic transmission and physical buttons (some Mazda) without breaking the bank has data privacy issues if you don't disconnect the antenna that sells your driving habits to insurance companies to raise your premiums (I believe they or some other Japanese company had an issue that revealed the location data as well).

I'm convinced most cars peaked in the 90s and 2000s. You can add an after market stereo with android auto or apple carplay to optionally connect your phone (if you want) and attach a backup camera. Everything else seems to be made to extract the most amount of money from you due to the failed project north Americans are forced to buy into have a job.

Tldr: fuck cars somewhat.

[–] limer@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 months ago

Many were increasingly of the opinion that they’d all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.

Douglas Adams

Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy

[–] shadow53@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Pretty sure C and assembly can do it all

Just compile C to (a third language)

Also, yes, you could accomplish everything with those two languages. Hell, you don't even need C. But for things where the relatively low level control of C isn't necessary, why shouldn't we use something that let's us focus on domain logic instead of preventing buffer overruns every few lines?

[–] vext01 2 points 4 months ago

Totally agree.

Also rolling your own data structures all the time isn't much fun.

[–] gtrcoi@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think Casey Muratori argues it's because even the things where it isn't necessary may be built upon by another project, whether it's a library or service, and the loses compound.

[–] ulterno@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yeah, if you have the luxury of long enough coding time and infinite working memory set ^[i.e. in your brain, so that you can keep all considerations of your whole project in your mind at a time], then it would be a objectively superior practice to make your project without including other libraries.

If on top of that, you also have inculcated all cumulative knowledge and mathematical insights that go into the design of an optimising compiler, then you want to be writing in Assembly, separately for each processor family.

Also, you can arguable do better with FPGAs and even better with ASICs (which will end up having a lower marginal cost than an FPGA based solution). And I might be getting ahead of myself here, but you can also draw all the layer masks yourself to get maximum control over the relative capabilities of each transistor printed on the silicon.

Sadly you can't go further than that without either requiring superpowers that would let you precisely generate UV laser beams from your fingernails/eyes/hair/whatever or going backwards in the technology progression to make transistors by hand, which would just end up with lower performing, high energy products.


Just realised that this was not in memes/humour community but keeping this nonetheless because it is fun

[–] Zikeji@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago

I find the unnecessarily complex argument a little odd. Third party ecosystems and individual libraries can be unnecessarily complex, especially when they're heavily opinionated. But I've performance never encountered a language I found "unnecessarily" complex. Do you have a few examples and what in particular you consider unnecessarily complex?

[–] hornywarthogfart@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago

Just because we can do everything in C and Assembly doesn't mean it is a good idea or that we should.

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Fuck assembly! Real programmers etch their programs into the board.

[–] Sxan@piefed.zip 3 points 4 months ago

Fuck board etching! Real programmers use butterflies.

[–] soc@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Your opinion is unpopular, because it is wrong.

No normal person would think of C when told to imagine a language that is not bloated and not unnecessarily complex.

[–] ulterno@programming.dev -1 points 4 months ago

I'd say it's necessarily complex for the things it is used for and neither bloated nor complex when used for purposes it was used for back in the C days.

But then again, I don't consider myself "normal".

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago

If all you have is a stone, every tool starts to look like a hammer.

[–] Senal@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago
[–] 0xDREADBEEF@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Replace C with lisp and you're 100% correct. Even then Rust is better than lisp IMO.