Free Software Foundation announces a Librephone initiative to develop a fully free and open source smartphone : linuxphones

[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 80 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

The most important thing fo me is not to fix a new Linux phone or linux compatible phone. It is to pressure the banks and digital ID providers here in Sweden and EU to support Linux.

I wanted a Linux phone, I was open and prepared to have a worse camera, battery, stability, user experience. You name it. Just to break free from the duopoly. But then I wouldn't be able to use my bank, healthcare services, insurance, file my taxes, etc. Cause there is no support for Linux only Android and iOS, windows, Mac OS.

Services needed to exist in a modern society locked to platforms owned by private corporations. Even if ASOP gets a fork that continues without Google's version of ASOP for future version's, there is a good chance none of the bank apps would function without integration of google services.

I'm running /e/OS on a fairphone, that was the best option out there for my requirements. But with the latest developments around ASOP I'm not sure about how long this will be an option.

[–] Saperlipopette@lemmy.ca 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I hate BankID with a fiery passion. I complain to all my Swedish colleagues how messed up it is that government services are locked behind a private company that only supports American big-tech operating systems. They are finally coming around to my way of thinking now.

I'm one of the only people I know in Sweden without a smartphone, just a dumbphone.

I couldn't get BankID to work with Wine or Waydroid so I just use an old Windows laptop when I need to access government services with the physical dongle. But I hate going back to Windows so it's always a pain.

[–] BlessedDog@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago (8 children)

BankID is so ass, the one we have here in Finland is a bit better, but the one we have in Estonia is the best.

The Estonian one is by far the most comfortable to use of the three, with even a working and maintained Linux version. It is also tied to the PCKS#11 certificate stored in your ID card, instead of a corporate bank account.

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[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (5 children)

I know some people on the internet is against the whole idea behind digital identification. But if its only used for things that would normally require identification in the physical world. Like banks and government interactions. I don't have anything against it per say. It can even be administered and handed out by a company (although that is against my personal ideology) but they have to then be forced to either release the source code or support at least one distro of Linux, or flatpack works too. Let's not get in to snap packages, it opens a whole other can of worms.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yeah we have that in BC Canada, your digital ID gives you access to BC services and as a login credential partner to federal tax account.

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[–] Saperlipopette@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

Exactly.

Through Handelsbanken I have two physical card readers.

One is wireless and I can use to authenticate online purchases and login to Handelsbanken. That one works on any browser so it works no problem on Linux. It even has a camera on the back of it to scan QR codes.
The second one connects through USB and requires you to download a program that only works on Windows and MacOS. This is the one that is required for all government services, other banks and everything else.

My hope was that I would be able to use the first physical card reader to scan the QR codes that come up for mobile bankID for other sites, but the QR code scanning functionality only works with Handelsbanken's website.

If I could login to everything with the wireless card reader then they wouldn't even need to make a version that specifically works for Linux, just a version that works for all browsers. It doesn't seem like it would need to be that big of a change from perspective.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This

I would have been in Linux for my phone years ago if it wasn't that so many companies are ~~conspiring~~ working together to lock down every service just to make sure that spyware phones are the only option to citizens.

Fuck. That. Shit.

I want to be able to make payments with my phone. THROUGH LINUX. MY PHONE, MY RULES.

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[–] No1@aussie.zone 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

This is why I prefer websites, and try to avoid apps. I can use them across any device.

Sure, there are some things I may not be able to do, like pay by phone, but I have a little card to do that.

[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

This is the worst part. They all have functional websites, but to login you need digital ID(bankID) so one app is acting as the gate keeper

[–] Dojan@pawb.social 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The problem isn't really the app, it's that a private organisation is controlling the default digital identification system, and how it is accessed. Until 2014 they had a Linux client for it, but it was discontinued. BankID has been around for a long time, so it's absolutely engrained in so many aspects of society here.

Past few weeks, these are instances I've used BankID, off the top of my head

Had to pick up a DHL parcel in person, authenticated with BankID
Picked up a parcel from a PostNord locker, BankID required
Called my mobile phone provider many times (fuck telenor), authenticated with BankID
Paid my bills, BankID to log in, as well as authenticate payment
Bought a game expansion, BankID required to use my debit card
Bought groceries (online, I struggle going out to groups of people), BankID at checkout
Updated my dog's food subscription, BankID at checkout
Checked in at dentist office, BankID to authenticate that I was present
Digital mailbox to get a bill, BankID

Honestly I'm sure I've missed a bunch. In general though, doing something digitally and authenticating with BankID is the primary way of getting things done here. The "old fashioned way" is unconventional, and tends to be woefully slow. When my previous roomie didn't have a social security number (and subsequently not access to BankID) every single administrative thing they needed doing took forever, registering for school, doing tests, updating licenses, registering your address, even just plain buying things can be tricky.

[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah you are basically soft-locked out of society without a phone with bank ID here in Sweden.

[–] Dojan@pawb.social 3 points 2 months ago

Aye. The amount of phone calls my friend had to do to get things done, and people generally had no idea how to go about things if you didn’t have BankID. Things were slow and unreliable.

[–] bookmeat@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The solution is to get a phone that does two things.

Connect to a mobile network
Share the link via hotspot to device of choice

Now you can do whatever you want with a mobile Linux device or anything your heart desires with your hotspot.

Set the bar low. Put out a product. Get traction.

[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

But I still won't be able to use it to access those mentioned services, due to the Digital ID not working on Linux.

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[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org 41 points 2 months ago

God please yes.

[–] kopasz7@sh.itjust.works 28 points 2 months ago

Shut up and take my money!

[–] miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I've been seeing this kind of stuff three times a year for 15 years.
Perpetual inertia.

[–] qqq@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

It's slowly moving forward. Remember how long it took to actually be able to use Linux easily as a daily OS? A smartphone is a significant challenge due to how hostile the hardware companies are

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

So you're saying if we keep declaring [current year] as the "Year of the Linux Mobile Phone", eventually it will become true!

[–] WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org 2 points 2 months ago

I felt bad for the younger generations buying steam decks and watching the Linux usage for increases.

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[–] carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 months ago

and if it goes as well as the other projects, in 5 years they’ll announce the Librephone One, a phone with 2016 specs that costs 2000$

[–] Smokeydope@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Look FSF. If you want this to work you cannot just copy fairphones design and pricing. I'll be honest IDK how anyone can justify spending more than 200$ on a phone especially in this economy but the privacy nerds seem to always be in good enough financial conditions no matter what they'll happily pay 800$ for a 5 year old phone with hard kill switches and modular parts.

I just can't do it. I don't have 800$ in play money to spend on a nerd phone. If you really want to help people you need to make some deals and mass produce this shit on the cheap. IDC if its got the build quality of a tracphone from walmart, find a way to bring those priced down to something the average person can actually consider.

[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

I agree with you, I think there is a huge market for cheap functional smartphones that just gets the day-to-day things done.

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago

Mass production comes after you can make a low volume high end niche product.

[–] Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Here's the split.

Either Linux on mobile needs to specialize to vertical screens, smooth out controls and usability, grow an app ecosystem for mobile and not just desktop apps squeezed, harden the network stack so 4G and 5G don't shit the bed, or...

There's also the concept of a fully FOSS Android, which personally, I believe is the lesser of two hills to climb, but I believe both could be used in tandem using Waydroid if both succeed in the end. If you have Android apps, made for Android, they can run on Linux mobile OSes right now through a compatibility layer.

Used in tandem, both could be more than the sum of either-or, at least on the short-term while Linux mobile development gets a bit more gas under its ass.

[–] biotin7@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 months ago

& battery life

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[–] biotin7@sopuli.xyz 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh so now they get this bright idea. Better late than never I guess.

[–] Chakravanti@monero.town 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

They're not the first.

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[–] zaknenou@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

please make something affordable. I want to be able to make mobile apps without being forced to the Java/swift shit duo.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The app ecosystem will be wild, if this succeeds.

I hate Java so much, and so deeply, that I do not develop quick handy little Android apps.

But if I can use a less obnoxious language, the world is going to see some mobile apps for tracking all the push-ups I'm not doing, and all the salads I intend to eat.

Edit: Android is already a huge success, by any meaure, of course. But it can get better without Java.

Edit 2: I do know that cross compilers exist. They still smell like Java, though.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Isn't the default for Android nowadays Kotlin? Which, yes, still runs on the JVM, but the language itself is much nicer designed.

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[–] zaknenou@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

What is annoying about Android, is that whatever language you use, YOU NEED SOME JAVA GLUE to make your app, and the signature thing. When I tried making the "hello world" apk I was astonished to see how hard it is compared to Linux dev. There has to be something wrong that led to the disgrace that is Android Studio (+10GB or something, I just recall it being ultra bloat) to start up with android dev.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago

There has to be something wrong that led to the disgrace that is Android Studio (+10GB or something, I just recall it being ultra bloat) to start up with android dev.

I agree. There's something just a bit off about the whole ecosystem.

I think it may reflect Google wanting to appear FOSS while not actually giving up control.

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[–] DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So like, in the interest of our whole ideology, is there anything folks can do, other than money, to help? I can solder.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

I can solder.

Great - you can build all the phones then. I can program, so I think we're most of the way there. We need one more person to write the manual.

[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

I can drive a manual, does that help?

[–] P1nkman@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

I've done a lot of technical writing and knowledge articles in my career. I'm in!

[–] DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

You cheeky cunt, I love it. Strong responses too. I think we got ourselves a cottage industry.

[+] BackYardIncendiary 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Last I checked, no. However, you can move actual radio chip off to a separate chip that is isolated by the MMU or connects through the USB bus.

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I was wondering the same thing. I thought the reason this thing has never taken off is because it’s ridiculously hard to make firmware that operates these radios.

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Exactly. It took Apple with their infinite resources and top engineers many years to build their own baseband.

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[–] Tundra@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJw

[–] frostysauce@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Oh, wow, announcing an initiative to develop a fully free and open source smartphone. That's a great idea! No one has announced such a thing before. Because if they had obviously it would have come to fruition by now.

[–] arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 months ago

And it seems like the goal isn’t to start from scratch, but to take an existing operating system like Android and reverse engineer all the proprietary components until it’s capable of running on smartphones and other mobile devices without relying on any proprietary drivers.

This is going to stall out like all the previous attempts. At best the phone will half work and then rapidly become completely outdated.

[–] BilSabab@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I saw a custom smartphone used by the military - no idea what's inside but it looked like a regular one with giant battery and with some different OS. It also had a kill switch button (or so I was told).

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Linux Phones