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submitted 1 year ago by _finger_@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

What I think could make Lemmy superior to Reddit is the ability to create themed-instances that are all linked together which feels like the entire point. I've noticed that a lot of instances are trying to be a catch-all Reddit replacement by imitating specific subs which is understandable given the circumstances but seems like it's not taking advantage of the full power that Lemmy could have.

Imagine for a moment that instances were more focus-based. Instead of having communities that are all mostly unrelated we had entire instances that are focused on one specific area of expertise or interest. Imagine a LOTR instance that had many sub-communities (in this case "communities" would be the wrong way to look at it, it would be more like categories) that dealt with different subjects in the LOTR universe: books, movies, lore, gaming, art, etc all in the same instance.

Imagine the types of instances that could be created with more granular categories within to better guide conversations: Baseball, Cars, Comics, Movies, Tech etc.

A tech instance could have dedicated communities for news, programming, dev, IT, Microsoft, Apple, iOS, linux. Or you could make it even more granular by having a dedicated instance for each of those because there's so many categories that could be applied to each.

What are your thoughts?

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[-] BurningnnTree@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

I think the main point of decentralization is to spread the burden of hosting around so that no individual has control of the system. I think having themed servers like what you're suggesting would aid in discoverability of different communities, but the downside is that that would mean individual servers would have monopolies on certain subjects.

[-] ewe@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Exactly. Also, people might not want their handle being associated with a specific niche hobby they have, though they might be there a lot/all the time (e.g. I don't want to be "ewe@hentainsfw", but I sure as shit am going to be spending a lot of time there).

I kind of feel like it would be best if we had some "user" instances that are nice and always up and most of the communities lived on "community" instances either grouped or just spread out. That way if any single community gets too big on an instance, it doesn't necessarily bog a bunch of users down as well (e.g. all the users on lemmy.ml that are hamstrung by being on the overloaded hardware on that instance).

[-] kevincox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

I don't agree. If I like LOTR and giraffes I don't want to create an account on both "instance groups". I want to do like today and create a single account, then subscribe to the communities I am interested in wherever they are.

To me it sounds like you are sort of mixing up community location and community discovery. This is sort of the case right now because instances have a list of local communities but I think that it is best that they are separated. For example on Reddit I don't generally find new communities by scanning the entire list of communities. I usually find them when someone mentions a related community in a comment of a community that I am already in. Or when I stumble across a community when searching the web. When you discover and subscribe to communities this way it doesn't really matter where they are hosted or if they are grouped. You can organically discover things that interest you over time (although I agree that it can be a bit slow to start).

[-] baronvonj@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

If I like LOTR and giraffes I don’t want to create an account on both “instance groups”.

But you don't have to create accounts on multiple instances. You can subscribe, post, and mod communities on other federated servers.

[-] Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

You can subscribe and post on different instances. But, I don't think all pertinent communities should be on one CENTRALIZED instance since that defeats the point of the Fediverse.

[-] Carchi@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

I guess it's the point of the fediverse as far as I understand. Kind of like being members of a bunch of old school forums. Unfortunately for me it's not really what I'm looking for, and I like the unified aspect of reddit.

[-] dystop@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

unified is nice, but if i've learnt anything over the past 9-10 years as a redditor, it means you're at the mercy of admins and power mods. And because it's become the go-to forum, it's gotten so much attention from stealth marketers and bots (it's hard not to unsee such posts once you learn to identify them), and karma whores trying to get the first witty remark in so it'll get boosted up into the first top-level comment.

I kinda like the idea of a fediverse - it's like a bunch of forums, but connected in a way that makes it so much easier to browse and read all of them, and doesn't have the "centralisation of power" problem reddit has.

[-] matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr 7 points 1 year ago

@_finger_
We can have both generic instances and instances around a particular topic.

We already have a few lemmy dedicated to a particular community like latte.isnot.coffee and startrek.website

[-] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

My thoughts are what if the instance admins or mods are pricks? What if the instance shuts down?

I think the power of the fediverse is that there is redundancy with the communities on different instances. I feel like it's a very human need to have everything neatly organized and in its place, but the internet is all about redundancy to ensure no single points of failure.

The fediverse mimics that by creating a web of small related communities, spread out over multiple instances, ran by different people, rather than a giant single community for one thing, on one instance, run by one person.

[-] _finger_@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This was the case with Reddit as well, there were a lot of competing subs created due to shitty mods and rules so I don't think it'd be much different in this case

[-] FermatsLastAccount@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

There was a r/Yankees subreddit that had awful mods, so some people created r/Nyyankees and basically everyone moved there.

[-] slapmefive@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The real issue with instances shutting down is losing access to a user account. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there would be no way to login/recover an account from an offline instance.

[-] _finger_@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Im honestly not entirely sure but that seems to be the case. Everyone is worried about mod power and decentralization but what about the power of instance owners over your own account? If I take the time to link a bunch of external communities to one instance, what happens if the instance goes down? All that work is gone

[-] radarsat1@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

This is a good point and makes me wonder: is there any interest in running a personal instance that has no communities, just for the sake of being in control of your own identity? Would that even be an appropriate thing to do? And if so, how would you convince instances to federate with you if you have no content?

[-] pistachio@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

actually, the fediverse isn't about redundancy. It's about interoperability. Anyone being able to host their own "reddit" and still being able to communicate with the other "reddits".

And the interoperability does bring resilience to the whole, because if a part of the system goes down (or goes to sh_t), then it's only that part. But resilience is not quite the same as redundancy.

For redundancy you're more looking at something like nostr, which functions with relays that can replicate the content being posted from all users of the network.

[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 4 points 1 year ago

This is good but at the moment the user base isn't big enough to support splitting interests like that.

[-] manitcor@lemmy.intai.tech 4 points 1 year ago

AI and machine learning tech instance over here looking for members. ran themed communities BEFORE reddit and slashdot, doing it again.

[-] Kasrean@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Would be nice if it was "divided" by user types too. Imagine a post about a new Marvel movie and you could view a shared comment thread but also filter to remove "marvel-fans", or see only "cineasts", without leaving the thread. Could lead to more bubbles, but could also make it really easy to see what other bubbles are thinking.

[-] notun@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Hopping between instances would have to be simplified significantly.

[-] feduser934@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

I don't understand what you mean. Isn't the point of federation that one account on one instance is as good as an account on every instance? I've never felt the need to hop between instances.

[-] notun@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

OP's post is about having specialized instances, making hopping around necessary. It's not convenient enough as it is.

[-] tet42@ka.tet42.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Making specialized instances does not in any way make hopping around necessary. If you join a specialized instance that doesn't already sub to the communities you want, you just add them.

Example: I join a Star Trek themed instance that has a bunch of locally created star trek communities. I want to sub to all those, but i ALSO want to sub to the homelab community on beehaw. I just subscribe to !homelab@beehaw.org FROM the star trek instance I am a member of. That star trek instance will then start syncing the homelab content from beehaw and you can read and reply from the star trek instance.

Conversely, if someone has an account on beehaw.org and they want to read a star trek community based on that star trek instance, they just need to sub to it FROM beehaw.org.

[-] feduser934@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

By hopping around, do you mean changing your account to one on another instance, or viewing a list of communities on an instance, or something else?

I don't feel that changing accounts is necessary because of the magic of federation. But I don't know how to view a list of communities in an instance without leaving your home instance. That would be a cool feature, but is only really important when you're initially picking all your subscriptions.

[-] notun@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Exactly, it's really inconvenient right now. And it's really important for the usability of what OP suggested.

If I simply link to a cool community I found, like https://beehaw.org/c/programming, you can't follow that link conveniently if you're from another instance.

And I highly disagree with only being important at the start. It's a big hurdle that stifles growth right now and in the future.

[-] _finger_@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

You can definitely sub to external communities from a separate instance, I have a bunch from Lemmy.ml show up in my world feed

[-] this@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Agreed, what needs to happen is an option that allows users to follow links from foreign instances in their home instance seamlessly. I have to imagine with the ramped up amount of development in lemmy that some of the devs must be working on it.

[-] tet42@ka.tet42.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes you can subscribe to and read that community from any lemmy instance. You just need to add it if the instance doesn't already federate with it.

Go to 'Communities' at the top of your instance homepage then in the search bar put the url of the community you want to add. (example: https://beehaw.org/c/programming)

This next part is undocumented, and might just be a bug. But this is the magic part.

On the next page, change the search dropdown from Communities to ALL.

You will see the community you want to sub to in the results. It will say something like.

Programming@beehaw.org - 0 subscribers

Click it, then on the top right pane click "Subscribe"

Done

[-] dimath@lemmy.pt 1 points 1 year ago

No, that's not right You can follow any community from any instance with your account, doesn't matter where you registered your account. I just subscribed to https://beehaw.org/c/programming (/c/programming@beehaw.org) from lemmy.pt user account

[-] pistachio@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

this is buggy. Pardon the nsfw, but it doesn't work for gonewild@lemmynsfw .com

[-] notun@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Read what I wrote, please.

[-] Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's more of the interface you're using a fault for not interpreting links correctly - it should be obvious that url/c/communityname should be interpreted as a community, just as !communityname@instance.org (right now jerboa is interpreting it as an email address) should also be interpreted as one, and if you remove the ! It should be interpreted as a username.

But most interfaces are open source, so give them time and someone (maybe even you) can submit a pull request that fixes it. That's the beauty of open source - in time the bugs get ironed out because it's a collaborative effort.

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[-] Spzi@lemmy.click 1 points 1 year ago

I don’t know how to view a list of communities in an instance without leaving your home instance.

On lemmy:

  1. Click 'Communities' (top left menu)
  2. Search using the search box (top right)
  3. Select 'Communities' from the drop down (top left)
  4. Make sure to toggle 'All' (*not *'Subscribed' or 'Local').

This will show you communities matching your search term from all instances*.

You can then subscribe to communities regardless on which instance they live and use them seemlessly, regardless of wether they are local or not.


*) It will show you communities matching your search term from all instances, if your instance has already discovered that community.

If it has not, it shows 'No Results'. You can force it by some exclamation mark shenanigans which I haven't understood well enough to explain. After that, your instance knows about that community in the other instance and will show it in future search results. I think as soon as one person from your instance force-discovers a community from another instance, that community becomes searchable for everyone on your instance.

[-] Stumblinbear@pawb.social 2 points 1 year ago

I'm currently working on a Lemmy mobile client and have implemented multi-accounts until it's easier to do this. Basically you can make multiple accounts on different instances and aggregate the data from them all into a single feed. It doesn't currently prioritize posting from specific accounts (you just select a primary)--I'm trying to figure out a good way to go about doing it so you can section things off 👀

[-] Sallp@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Why do you need multiple accounts on different instances. You can have an account join a community on a different instance.

[-] Countsheep@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

How? I know I can follow a community but I can’t get a general feed of that instance. That’s the issue they’re solving

[-] twistedtxb@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I think it will more of less follow that path naturally in the years to come, if it ever catches on. You can already see this happening with some instances (ie lemmy.ca mostly devoted to canadian topics, etc)

You have to remember that the amount of lemmy servers exploded in the past week or so. We're pretty much figuring this out collectively

[-] dizzy@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

waveform.social is handling a lot of music-making topics. I think this is better than simply being region based. I understand the need for communities of different languages but I don’t really understand the need for ones specific to different english-speaking regions. Instances based on similar interests makes the most sense to me.

[-] linusbeeftips@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It may make a difference in speed if you are closer to the actually server (IE, it's in your country)

[-] DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I agree. I think it's going to be a bit of column A and a bit of column B. There will be the large general instances. Along with more regional and topical instances like feddit.de and programming.dev. Then a whole bunch of small instances that represent the long tail.

[-] sanguinepar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Wouldn't the risk be though, that an instance devoted to music, for example, would mean that all music discussion would fall under the control of a single mod/team, opening us up to the kind of controlling shenanigans Reddit was pulling?

And were the instance to go down, it would take everything on that topic with it.

I realise that people would still be free to make their own community on any topic on any instance, but if instances were topic themed, they would likely soon dominate any "independent" communities on that same topic.

All that said, I still have a limited understanding of the fediverse, so perhaps it's not an issue.

[-] _finger_@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I definitely see the point but I think the beauty is that there's nothing stopping someone from creating a competing themed instance in the event that a mod is a shithead. The ability to link external instances is a great feature but it can get a tad tedious to link all the ones you like from each source. The problem I think is deciding how to choose which instance is your "main" that you'd use to link all external content to.

Maybe a way to solve that problem is to not mimic Reddit's subreddit architecture, so that if I create a Star Wars or LOTR community on an instance that I could also add sections within it for specific topics. I wouldn't want tags to be a thing because it's just a search filter essentially, having separate sections would add a greater ability to organize topics to their respective places similar to how a forum works.

[-] fluffman86@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

I love how y'all have just invented what we used to refer to as "a forum" 😂

Before reddit, Badger and Blade was a forum dedicated to traditional wet shaving, with sub forums for double edged razors, single edge razors, old school straight razors, badger hair brushes, different shaving soaps, and some other nice manly things like knives or fountain pens or leather goods or what have you.

If people didn't like B&B, there was also The Shave Den, a similar forum with different mods and different rules and some similar sub forums.

For tech you could (and still can) join linustechtips.com or there were probably others for Chris Parillo or TWiT or Cali Lewis or whatever.

[-] Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi 1 points 1 year ago

Yes we've essentially done that, with the major addition that lemmys "forums" are all interconnected, and you can subscribe to them. You can browse one with the account of another.

You could say Reddit was the same - a set of forums that you "subscribe" to,

So really the order is forum > Reddit(+subscriptions +voting) > Lemmy (+federation/interconnection)

[-] bcoffy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

So sort of like what the forums of yore were like? You’d have a website for a dedicated, broad topic (like a video game franchise or a brand you like), then subforums for topics in it (specific games in the series or specific products by the brand)

[-] Moonguide@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

I think, in time, those will come organically. Maybe those communities won't be purpose built to be dedicated to a single topic, but despite federation I wouldn't be surprised if instances popped up with rules about topics discussed. Still federated, but communities within themselves will be regulated somewhat.

I'm not sure how to feel about this, maybe it's just the time I spent on reddit has jaded me, but there's divisive topics that I'm not sure would do well if housed within the same instance without coming down to name calling and unsavoury behaviour. A reddit example, early days r/lowsodiumcyberpunk2077 and r/cyberpunk 2077, both held extremely differing opinions. An even worse example because politics got into the mix, r/thelastofus and r/thelastofus2. If mods keep on top of it with good rules set in place and are enforced, could be good.

I'm not sure either if forcing topics to newly deployed instances is a realistic path, either.

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this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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