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So there was a bit of a heated discussion recently on the topic of "anti-white" or "reverse" racism and we (some of the mods) figured we would clarify some rules for this community:

  • "White people" is a very vague term. Having low expectations of people in the imperial core is understandable for someone in the Global South, but it's better to be specific. Saying "I'm racist against white people" when you mean "I don't trust the average person in " is going to cause misunderstandings
  • People who were racist in the past are not necessarily racist in the present. Many of us were liberals before becoming Marxists, and there's a significant overlap between liberals and racists
  • No matter your ethnicity, don't use terms like "subhuman" or "orc" to describe yourself and your group; it may make others uncomfortable
  • Don't call for violence (particularly against ethnic groups, but it's best to avoid it in general so the instance doesn't get in trouble)
  • Stick to Lemmygrad's rules of good-faith discussion

that's all, folks

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[-] qwename@lemmygrad.ml 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Shifting the topic from anti-capitalism to anti-"insert gender/race/colour/nationality/other biological/natural-born traits here" is just helping the capitalists.

Capitalists are happy to incite division based on anything, even ideology, this helps to keep the exploited divided and not a threat to their rule, which is what happens if people keep bickering about issues like the ones in question.

[-] qwename@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm saying this also as a reminder that capitalists will allow anti-capitalist ideology to exist, to a certain degree, because anti-capitalist can mean anything from Marxism to anarchism or worse. More time spent on debating the right path is less time spent on putting theory into practice, which is more time for capitalism to live on.

Division is what capitalists employ to break the unity of the proletariat, which is why they emphasize individualism and demonize collectivism. Capitalists want a monopoly on unity and democracy, a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie rather than the proletariat.

This is not to say that we should all forget the wrongdoings of certain people and groups and join up in fake-unity, but instead hold on to those thoughts, and keep in mind the fundamental enemy that is capitalism.

[-] juchebot88@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 year ago

capitalists will allow anti-capitalist ideology to exist, to a certain degree

You see this with fascism, which is in many ways pretends to genuine anti-capitalism, and so ends up capturing a lot of well-meaning people whenever it takes power.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Fascism is just ultra-capitalism, and they loveeeeee capitalism, that's why capitalists allow it to exist.

[-] letranger@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago

can't updoot enough 🏆

[-] Aru@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's important to always remember why we hate the "white men" and see them as evil, some seem to forget that it's about historical and hierarchal issues, not inherit faults with skin color and lack of spice in food.

A lot of pale ethnic groups that got nothing to do with colonialism or were even victims of colonialism sometimes get lumped with white people hate because of this, which is hurtful ig.

I think there would be a benefit to introducing a new term that describes the ruling class of imperial core entities and their populace without generalizing based on skin color, similar to "zionist" maybe. Also, it's gotta be hip fr fr.

Edit: oh yeah, and white people in the imperial core are also not the source of the problem obviously. I don't know why I forgot to write about that. @ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml wrote better than I could ever do read his reply.

[-] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 1 year ago

Part of the issue is lumping in the populace, as if they can not be educated or join in the revolutionary cause. Even Fidel Castro, said and I quote "In Cuba we have never cultivated hatred against the American people or blamed them for the aggressions perpetrated by the governments of that country. That would have run contrary to our political doctrines and our internationalist conscience, both well-proven throughout many years, and increasingly rooted in our ideas." We are communists, sure we struggle aganst the capitalist class, and aganst imperalism, but we should not stoop so low as to condemn entire groups of people just because of where they are from. To quote Castro once more ""The Revolution's work is not limited to material work, it has worked on people's consciousness, on their soul, preparing the human being as the human being of tomorrow, of the future, should be, and fighting against the lies, fighting against the dirtiest and gross propaganda, fighting against blockade and fighting against the harassment that tries to weaken the Revolution, to weaken its morale, its consciousness". we cannot do that if we demonize groups of people for traits they cannot control.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Hell, Castro is objectively white with how his family were wealthy landowners directly from Spain. Whiteness is such a meaningless distinction.

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[-] Redlogic@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 1 year ago

Sometimes solidarity is earned. If global north people needs the solidarity from the south, they not just be some kind of leftist that asks for health care and high wages but should be thoroughly anti-imperialist. But that does not give us the permission to use the racialised language to cuss at global north proles. But the harsh criticism should not be blunted.

[-] Valbrandur@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 year ago

There are communists in Sweden. Good and honest people. So there are in Norway, Finland, Canada and the USA; in Belgium, the UK, Denmark and the Netherlands too.

Be kind. L'Internationale sera le genre humain.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 year ago

I'm very relieved reading that. In some places in the past this topic was often really hot and incredibly USA-centric.

[-] juchebot88@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 year ago

Man, how do I always miss all the drama

[-] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 year ago

one part good timeing, one part being willing to be offline I guess

[-] juchebot88@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Don't know if I'd call it good timing, since back on reddit I always seemed to be around for the recurring sex work/porn argument. (Which granted, sometimes seemed to take place one to two times a week).

[-] destructor_rph@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 year ago

Can we still say 'Amerikkkrakker'?

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 1 year ago

It's basically just "gringo" but longer

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[-] GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago

just make sure to use six K's or you'll get a sternly worded letter

[-] Ape@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 year ago

missed ALL of this flamewar and only seeing the tail end of it feels like seeing the 2nd half of a looney tunes joke, im sure the setup & punchline was insane but now its just like "Damn"

[-] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago

insane is a word one could use for what happened

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Going though it makes you feel exactly how Willie Coyote feels after having everything blows up in his face.

[-] Rasm635u@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 year ago

I’ve been gone for a few days, what did I miss?

[-] DankZedong@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 year ago

Nothing, really. Good on you for touching grass.

[-] ShiningWing@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Thank you, the arguments going on in that thread were unbearable to read lol

[-] 201dberg@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago

Kind of sad after reading through all that.

[-] ThatCakeThough@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago
[-] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 year ago

You missed quite a bit, or one thread, depends on how you look at it.

[-] Sinokai@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 year ago

geniune question: are we able to call for traitors and enemies of the working class to get the wall or no?

[-] GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 year ago

it's probably fine if it's something vague like " gets the wall", but direct death threats to individuals might get the instance in trouble with the server provider (you'd have to ask an admin for a concrete answer)

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this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2023
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