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Some people are stupid and immature and believe their cat will suffer immense psychological torture if kept inside
They don’t care about the environment because they are entitled and thoughtless and genuinely believe you’re just a cat hating alarmist
As someone without a cat in the fight, don't cats suffer if they're kept indoors? I mean, I know that I do
No, they don't. They only suffer if you're a shit owner who has failed to care for their needs
They’re totally fine indoors and are even healthier
People just don’t want to do the work of entertaining and playing with their cat so they let them outside
https://www.catster.com/cat-health-care/is-it-cruel-to-keep-cat-indoors/
I guess they're the same as us then in that respect; our biology is primed for the outdoors, but we live longer indoors and any resulting depression or drop in happiness from this nature/nurture divide is very livable.
Fair enough. I can say that I'd probably let my cat out if I had one, but who knows, maybe I wouldn't
Some people are responsible and take their cat on walks with a leash
Or make an enclosed area for them
Most are just entitled dipshits that don’t care if their cat kills every living creature it can find, which they do
Walk on a leash might be something I'd try, though only on the streets. I live close to and volunteer at a nearby nature reserve, and I'm sure my colleagues would be livid if they knew I was taking a cat near a place with wading ducks.
That being said, we have a metric ton of foxes here and weirdly enough, the only thing they're afraid of seem to be cats.
So, you might find this interesting.
Theres rewilding of Tasmanian Devils on the Mainland beginning by Aussie Ark its primarily for insurance against a severe cancerous disease that decimated the Tasmanian population.
I can't find a reference, but its also thought that Tasmanian Devils reintroduction in the mainland may reduce fox and cat numbers in the wild in Australia by putting downward pressure on those species' population numbers. Which could be a great win for conservation, since these two species alone are responsible for so many native animal deaths.
Gosh they're cute little devils. What a crazy (transmittable through bite??) cancer they have, and how sad that farmers would decimate them based on nothing more than conjecture.
I hope their numbers thrive, and I hope the ecosystem on the whole retains some balance for the smaller creatures to thrive a little
Why do you keep referencing indoor cats and poorer quality of life or depression as if it's a foregone conclusion? It's not, and indoor cats live longer, are exposed to less diseases and viruses, and keep bird populations from being pointlessly decimated. If you have sources for your prejudiced opinions, post them. Because you're starting to sound like propaganda...
I didn't realise it was a fierce debate, I thought we were all (quite amicably) trading anecdotes.
Alright so there's this 2021 paper cited > 100 times that cites a few studies in the intro, claiming that many cats just don't get the proper indoor stimulation even when the owners are trying:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7909512/
Whilst owners may instead aim to meet their cat’s behavioural needs indoors, studies suggest many cat owners may not provide adequate levels of enrichment to ensure high welfare for their cat [31,32,33]. Insufficient levels of enrichment and the inability to avoid stressful human–social environments indoors [34,35] may contribute towards the comparatively higher levels of undesirable and sickness behaviours observed in indoor-only cats, compared to indoor-outdoor cats [5,8,36,37,38].
(I don't list the studies themselves, but their number are at least somewhat indicative of prevailing evidence)
My previous cat was absolutely terrified of the outdoors. She liked looking out of windows, but I walked her 5 feet out the front door once, holding her the entire time. Afterwards, she'd watch that door on alert while sitting with me on the couch rather than nap like she used to. Did that for a month or two at least, maybe longer.
Anecdotal, but sometimes cats and outdoors don't mix. It's never a necessity.
The rescue I use makes you sign a contract saying that the cats you adopt will be strictly indoor cats. It's better for them, too, not just for the environment.
My old roommate had two indoor cats, and they lived their entire lives inside of that tiny apartment. One day when walking home, I saw one of the cats just chilling outside looking at me with a confidence I'd never seen before.
Thinking he'd escaped the house, I tried to grab him and take him back up, but he kept scampering away. After giving up, I went home and up into the apartment, and both cats were indoors. One of them just had an outdoorsy twin.
We'd have to keep careful whenever we opened the apartment door, because the cats would sometimes sprint out of the place and down the stairs out of curiosity.
One of the cats died recently, and I do sometimes lament the outdoor life he never and that his doppelganger was currently living. I don't think they were unhappy - they were fed, loved, entertained - I just feel that they were imprisoned a little somehow in that space
In my experience, they do best having the option to go in and out. My cats that were allowed to wander didn't exhibit the weird behaviors of indoor cats that we associate with them and joke about. They simply came in and chilled.
This notion that they're all bloodthirsty killers doesn't match my experience. Ozzy was my only cat that killed, or could hunt to begin with. Their instincts seem dulled, and without a mother to teach them, they're not the skilled killers of the past.
Besides, they're hardly desperate if they're fixed and have a steady source of food. Feral cats are a whole other story!
My former outside cats didn't exhibit any of the stereotypical behaviors we all joke about. Of the 6 cats I've had in the past, only one was a killer, but he kept to rodents. No idea how that worked out. 🤷🏻♂️
There are several outdoor cats around here, and I'm in the yard all the time. Never seen evidence of them killing anything. Only dead animal I've found was a male hummingbird, and as thick as the males were that year, I suspect it was from a hummingbird fight. One third of an acre, on the edge of town, plenty of cats, 1 corpse. YMMV.
Not saying cats aren't killers! But I'm guessing much of the instinct had faded over time. Again, I've only known one killer, among my cats and all the others I've known.
Loss of habitat is responsible way more for a decline in bird population than cats. Main culprit being animal agriculture and suburban as well as rural settlements. If you want to further decrease it, registration and neutering will help even more. But why really solve a problem when you can further the cultural war and erode citizen solidarity by having them squabble over small issues?
Having a free roaming cat is ecological genocide in Australia.
They cause massive fauna loss, not only from predation but also toxoplasmosis and that's before we even touch on the ferals. It's been proven to be a massive national problem, not a "culture war". It dramatically reduces your cats lifespan, leaving them open to disease, injury, car accidents, fights and your local psycho.
Keep your fucking cat indoors or contained in a run.
Also the ongoing insect apocalypse can't be good for bird populations.
Because the idea that cats are devastating to local bird populations and responsible for species becoming endangered or extinct is mostly a myth. The actual number of birds killed by cats is essentially a rounding error in the face of astronomically high number of deaths caused by human activity. But people don't like to feel responsible for things, so flawed studies are latched on to as cold, hard, fact when it doesn't match reality at all.
And why would it? Think about how crazy a claim it is that bird populations are declining because of cats, and not things like cars, windows, wind turbines, jet engines, habitat loss, loss of insects, air pollution, noise pollution, light pollution, pesticides, plastic litter, chemical spills, or high powered radars.
That being said, cats are still predators; and against things like flightless birds that have no defenses, they can still be a problem. But against birds capable of flight, they just aren't going to kill that many.
That being said, if you don't want cats to be roaming free because the piss and shit everywhere and can create feral populations, those are all perfectly valid reasons. But wanting to ban them to protect the birds is a bit like hearing synthetic rubber is an environmental issue and deciding the best course of action is to ban it's use in tennis balls.
Do you have any sources to your thoughts ? I mean you'll find plenty of things like this https://www.unsw.edu.au/newsroom/news/2025/03/native-animal-deaths-feral-cat-dna-testing So I'm just wondering what you have to the contrary
Eh, in my opinion that's not a great paper, it's basically just an essay with some references, not a RCT or a literature review. They also make the point "...so what if cats kill 10-15% of the annual population that's a usual predator -prey ratio".. except.. its an introduced prey???
Swiss institution author that only mentioned a single Australian study. And their main argument is that the animals that cats kill could be breeding faster than the cats are killing them. Hence it's not a problem.
It's a fair point if we are talking about rats or noisy minors. It's not a valid argument if we consider any form of endangered species, of which Aus has many.
All agreed! Feral cats are far more of an issue than Puss-in-Boots taking a walk in the garden.
Because the idea that cats are devastating to local bird populations and responsible for species becoming endangered or extinct is mostly a myth.
Native animal extinctions are primarily due to human activity and introduction of invasive predatory species is only one of many destructive human activities. As far as I can tell the messaging that cat impacts are overstated are primarily from a particular pet lobby group which is like asking the NRA about gun control or the fossil fuel industry about carbon emissions.
Alternate take: spay and neuter all cats. Indoor cats live longer. Every cat deserves to have a good home.
Pretty sure they are in some places. Depends on local council.
I think Fremantle WA LGA have done something like this.
Yeah but you failed to consider that there’s this really cute outdoor cat that I see on the way to work almost every day and he purrs really loudly when I pet him and he’s just a little guy
I know that cat! Its a con-cat, reels you in with fake purrs to get you hooked; next you know, you're at the grocery store buying another of bag of kitty litter.
That cats workin you!
Have you ever watched that episode of The Wild Thornberrys where she gives the finch a needle?
episode of The Wild Thornberrys where she gives the finch a needle?
No I haven't but I think I understand the implication.
The bird had been attacked by a non-native species and was going to be killed by same non-native species tonight. I have no interest in domesticating wild animals or interfering in their lives. It would be illegal to do so in Australia and it requires a permit and a lot of expertise to look after a wild animal. There are serious penalties for doing the wrong thing. We rang a wildlife hotline to seek advice. The bird will be transported and surrendered to the closest vet as soon as they open in the morning.
I will be getting humane cat traps from the council as soon as I can.
Get traps.
Any cats you trap should be taken to the furthest council pound possible.