Honestly if this extremely low barrier keeps out the Facebook crowd then it's doing God's work.
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Keep it as-is specifically as a barrier to entry for reddit user "icankillpenguins"
Is there a way to make it easier for literally everyone else but conversely making it significantly more complicated specifically for reddit user "icankillpenguins"?
The problem with your suggestion is that it creates centralization. See Mastodon.social, matrix.org, etc.
The solution, I have posted before, is to ask instances to be opted into a directory, and then present the user with a random suggestion from that list. There should be some basic criteria like uptime and a proper set of rules laid out of course.
The default choice is whatever instance you're currently on.
From https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser:

"I don't know, help me" scrolls you down to look at the instances (about 1cm, lol). I'm sure THAT could be more helpful!
Maybe the default join should be bigger, and leave the other options for people who really want to have a look.
Actually, now that I think about it, and based on the Voyager screenshot above, maybe it should be something like
- Big visible button "Join CurrentServer"
- Less visible button "Pick another server"
And then only if people pick the second option, then then list appears.
That would make it less confusing for new joiners (they would just go the default path), and still gives people the option to look around.
Yes, I agree
Voyager has damn good UX, we can essentially copy most of what they're doing and it'll be good
Sorry, but some of the people in that thread arguing about federation (something they still don't understand) are not interested in finding out how it works.
You could literally make them an account on piefed.social, and they would still be confused on account of all of the communities and usernames from different servers.
I truly think it's best to not put too much stock in one obstinate user arguing about it when 10 others quietly sign up and try it out with no hand-holding needed.
There is definitely some bad faith among a few of those commenters.
However, we should probably try to still improve the signup process. As I said in the OP, Voyager's works already better, and that's a Fediverse app.
Yeah, realistically, just get people onto a server (we can bike shed about which is best for that later) and then when they learn more about what they are/imply and what different ones are like they can move if they want to. I'm sure I'm preaching the choir here, but everything can be pretty easily migrated to your new account. The only thing that won't be is your old posts/comments and replies to those won't end up in your new inbox, but that's pretty minor.
I'm afraid that icankillpenguins might be right. That most people don't really know what a server is, so when asked to pick one they freeze
My thoughts, numbered only for potential referencing
- I guess for now it could be managed by hand which server they get routed to. But that's not an ideal solution IMO
- I think that idea of checking response speeds is a good idea
- keeping option to read the instance's description and choose another one is a good idea
- theoretically, joining a general instance vs an opinionated one might not work for those that are not opinionated or are opinionated the other way. So I think it should be discussed if instances should be able to mark themselves as general or opinionated and the initial choice be from among the general ones
- it would be a good idea to somehow rotate between proposed instances based on MAU or some other metric
I signed up a minute ago, and I was so confused (still am, tbh). But luckily there was the button "I dont know, help" me, which scrolled down a centimeter, which was actually not that helpful :D
Well you made a good decision! If you still need help, look here:
I was gonna say: if you still have questions after that, then just @Blaze@piefed.zip
I think point 4 is critically important. It's great that the fediverse has kooky instances but lets not throw new users to the wolves by referring them to "random" instances.
IMO, pre-select a half dozen good choices, discard the third with the slowest response times, make a random selection from the remainder.
I’m afraid that icankillpenguins might be right.
Not something that I thought I would read today. 🤷🏻♂️
I meant only in the context of the pasted image, not that whole other thread
We should add a button that says "I don't care, choose for me" that chooses a random server. Some of them will end up on Chinese Piefed, but most will be happy with their choice, and hopefully we can give the other two buttons good names that help people choose.
Judging by the discussion OP links to the text should probably read something like "I don't understand the question, just sign me up".
And those users need to be signed up to the site they are currently on, because that's where they will return to to sign in later on. If you forward them somewhere else they'll have no idea what's going on.
It's incredible how terrifying the prospect of a choice can apparently be to people who have grown up without any.
The problem isn’t the choice itself – it’s that we don’t understand what we’re gaining or losing when picking a server. There’s no explanation of what a server is on the selection page. Does it really not matter which server I choose? Are the communities the same across all servers? If someone posts something on one server, will it be synced to all servers? My wife doesn’t know what the word “server” means, and I think most people are the same. Or are we expecting only IT folks to use the platform?
In case you are interested in the full story:
It does not matter much to the user, but it does matter a little. Which is also why it gets hard to find a good solution.
The communities are the same, and posts are synchronized. However, each server (also known as instance, to make it more complicated) is responsible for its own moderation.
Say for example that it turns out quokk.au is run by the absolute worst people, and that they start encouraging vile content and hate speech on their platform. Or simply that they don't moderate, and a lot of bad actors start signing up there and posting spam. Other servers might say in response that they don't want to keep seeing content from quokk.au, as bad content keeps coming from there. Of course that would affect the users of that instance.
To a degree, these problems can result from size. Lemmy.world is the biggest instance of Lemmy, and while it's generally decently moderated they have of course had greater challenges making sure their user base behaves decently as a result. So we want users to spread out so that each instance can have human moderators overseeing a manageable amount of human users.
This means that your instance can matter: if it is particularly poorly managed, you might be cut off from parts of the network as a result. And on the flip side, if you join an instance with stricter moderation, you might see less questionable content from elsewhere. Typical divides is whether Russia propaganda networks like lemmygrad.ml are blocked form joining the network, and whether porn is allowed.
The other big reason we want people to go to different instances is to keep the network healthy. If (almost) all of us are on the same site, that gets expensive to run, and leaves too much responsibility and power in the hands of the people running that site. If something happens to it it's a huge problem, if moderation fails it's a huge problem, and it's just generally a weakness. We want people to spread out to a bunch of different sites so that the network itself is robust.
Over on Mastodon, an anarchist instance hosted in America had the police raid their physical location and steal all the data off their server. Obviously we're also less vulnerable to these types of attacks if we spread out, though more often the problems are more boring and ordinary.
So in effect, when people ask to sign up at piefed.social, the good people at piefed.social wants people to join the network, but preferably the load should be put on some other server in that network in order to distribute the risk and workload, and strengthening the network as such. This is not primarily for the immediate benefit of the individual users—though it will materialize as such though more human moderation and admins that have the capacity to actually care about them—but for the benefit of the network.
So that's why we struggle to find a good way to ask people to pick a server. The choice is not super important for the user—the recommended instances are all decent, and the little information provided should be enough to make an informed enough decision—but it's important to the network that some users make a choice.
If you have any recommendations how to make this easier while distributing users around the different servers, feedback and ideas are super welcome.
Something like that could be a good place to utilize "trusted instances." So, instead of just choosing a random instance of all of the piefediverse, it chooses a random trusted instance.
The feedback in this thread overall has been helpful.
Mastodon is working on addressing this on their side, by trying to recommend instances geographically close to the user. Perhaps a similar process could be used here?
Yes, that's what PieFed does now.
I work in design and animation, is there somewhere I could contact directly about helping in terms of design and Ui?
I think the "it doesn't matter which server you pick" default reply should also be done away with, because it does matter. However, like e-mail, it allows you to communicate with every other server (unless you're in a server that's been widely banned for reasons) and can be online while other servers aren't.
So it does matter which server I choose? Will my choice mean I can’t see all the posts from every server?
