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submitted 1 year ago by nodsocket@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
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[-] PetDinosaurs@lemmy.world 200 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

First, please define what you mean by socialism. That word encompasses a lot of very different forms of government, even when it's used "correctly", and it's typically not.

The Nazis called themselves socialists, and I'm not moving there.

When many people say socialism, what they mean is capitalist democracy with a strong social safety net, strong government regulation, and highly progressive taxation.

Edit: for the love of god, please do a little bit of reading about socialism before reinforcing my point that this word is used terribly. We won't take the wiki as ultimate truth, but please read. Be better. Read and think first. Comment later.

[-] nodsocket@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago

When many people say socialism, what they mean is capitalist democracy with a strong social safety net, strong government regulation, and highly progressive taxation.

Let's go with that definition since that's what most people think of as socialist.

[-] Tyfud@lemmy.one 74 points 1 year ago

The question doesn't need to be hypothetical. I am moving to a country exactly like that. From the US.

Lack of modern health care coverage alone is enough to justify it. A bonus is that the quality of life across the board is significantly higher.

[-] ramble81@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago

Where at and how’d you pull that off? Inquiring minds want to know

[-] ZombieTheZombieCat@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

I read that Denmark releases a list every six months of the skills and degrees that are allowed to immigrate, or get priority or something like that. From looking at the last one I assume they value education, the liberal arts and humanities a lot more than the US.

It ends up being a catch 22. When you want to leave the US because of a lack of upward mobility, social services, jobs in your field, and you can't save because of healthcare, rent, and debt, then how can you have enough money to move to another state, much less another country?

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[-] xe3@lemmy.world 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That is objectively not socialism (any definition of socialism that begins by defining it as a form of capitalism is fundamentally confused)

That said, I’d agree that it is a widespread misunderstanding today. And what people mean when they say socialism is usually actually social democracy (which despite sounding like the word socialism is a mixed system based on capitalism)

Using that misunderstanding as the definition I would definitely live in many of those countries. Many have some of the highest qualities of life in the world, low rates of poverty, universal access to good healthcare and education, and good social mobility.

E.g Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Germany

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[-] PetDinosaurs@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Provided there is an appropriate amount of technocracy (decisions made by experts rather than politicians), it'd be hard for me to think of a better form of government.

Anyway, this was largely the US until Regan. Social safety net could've been stronger, but that had to evolve. Same as in Europe.

Except , racism. Addressing that is not a part of any definition of socialism that I'm aware of. Equality is certainly going along with the spirit of this definition of "socialism"

[-] dannoffs 12 points 1 year ago

"Socialists of Lemmy, would you move to a country that someone who has absolutely no idea what socialism is thinks is socialist?"

Lmao.

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[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 110 points 1 year ago

"If you hate the Death Star so much, why don't you go live on Alderaan?"

[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

Death Star blows up Alderaan.

"Why would socialism do this?!

[-] Linuto@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 79 points 1 year ago

The notion that free* healthcare, free* education, subsidised transport, government provided unemployment supports etc is even labelled “socialist” strikes me as particularly American.

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[-] Communist@lemmy.ml 63 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are no countries with socialist policies.

Can you name a country that has workplace democracy? No? Then there isn't a socialist country out there.

Would I move to the social democracies of the world? I love norway and whatnot politically (as much as a communist can love the state of any country)... but I love having warm air and nature I can enjoy without a coat much more.

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[-] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 56 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Social Security is a socialist policy.

As is Medicaid and Medicare.

As is SNAP and EBT.

I live in a country with socialist policies already called The United States of America.

But we could use lots more. So I'll stay here, and I'll try to make it that way.

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[-] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago

I moved to Germany from the US this year. There is subsidized public transit, universal healthcare, minimum vacation time, a heavy union culture, strong renter-favored laws (although capitalist for profit housing is still an ever growing plague).

As others pointed out, the terminology isn't a great tool for debate without an agree upon definition. But yes, I would move to a country that cared about people over profits.

[-] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you mean the modern idea of socialism, like the nordic nations, then absolutely get me the fuck out of rugged-individuals-at-eachother's-throats-land please, these people are fucking nuts in the not fun way.

https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2020/the-nordic-exceptionalism-what-explains-why-the-nordic-countries-are-constantly-among-the-happiest-in-the-world/

If you're talking about one of the formerly socialist nations that the United States intentionally took covert action against and destabilized to keep the regional markets open for our capitalists to sociopathically exploit like Venezuela, then no thanks, I've already seen enough of that trademark American for private profit cruelty played out domestically in our innumerable tent cities in every American population center.

https://time.com/5512005/venezuela-us-intervention-history-latin-america/

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[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago

The question here is "What Counts as Socialism?" Because for most Americans, a functioning society already counts as Socialism. No need to be afraid that your kid gets shot in school? Non-ruinous healthcare for everyone? No need to work at 80 just to survive and pay your rent? Workers rights?

For many Americans this is Socialism or Communism (the same people could not be pressed to tell the difference between those terms).

[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 32 points 1 year ago

These kinds of questions, aimed at any ideology, will result in a "no" for the average person unless they can take their friends and families with them.

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[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

No, I want to fix my own country.

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[-] CaptainHowdy@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago

100% if that country is in northern Europe. Hard nope if it's in South America.

I'd buy a ticket tomorrow if there was a job for me in a Scandinavian country and I didn't need to speak the language immediately.

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[-] Synthead@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree with a blend of socialism and capitalism, and in the right places. The US has healthcare in the same category as PlayStations. I don't think this makes sense.

We should believe in healthy, educated Americans as a common ground. And if you want to save up for a PlayStation, go for it.

Ironically, since the government hasn't fully stepped in to provide healthcare, coverage has moved to the private sector. So you still have socialist healthcare, just with shitty insurance companies trying to find ways to make billions of dollars from sick individuals.

I think we can do better. Do you?

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[-] Koffiato@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago

Social(ist) policies are extremely removed from socialism. The countries people list here, aka Canada, Danmark and Ireland among others are extremely capitalist still. This thread is therefore useless.

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[-] Pantoffel@feddit.de 21 points 1 year ago

As a German, I think I would. Given that it is good and just.

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[-] macabrett@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago

Why would I move somewhere that America is planning a military coup?

[-] GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago

Probably. If I could get a job with the same standard of living, the moving costs were paid (do not overlook this, it's insane), the paperwork was trivial or non existant, sure. Bonus perks would be language classes and walkability/bikeability.

It depends on what "socialism" entails, but US capitalism has failed me and mine, has caused so much suffering in my friends and family.

[-] fruitleatherpostcard@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

I’m an American who has lived in the UK and Australia. Socialised medical systems are fucking amazing.

[-] CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 15 points 1 year ago

Fuck, if someone could pay the costs to relocate me to Norway and set me up with roughly the same job and equivalent house there, I would move in a heartbeat.

[-] Delascas@feddit.uk 12 points 1 year ago

I did! Hello from Scotland . . .

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[-] SeaJ@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

We have socialist policies here in the US. We just have fewer of them than other countries.

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[-] TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Yes. Looking hard at the Nordic countries.

[-] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That really depends. Are we talking immigrate to somewhere with functional socialist policies, or to a psuedo dictatorship with what looks a whole lot like strong man fascism except they promote a few (most often failed or failing) socialist programs? Because I have no interest in moving to a failed state like Venezuela. I'm not going to slaughter and eat a bunny.

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[-] diskmaster23@lemmy.one 12 points 1 year ago

Do they have legal marijuana?

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this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
197 points (85.8% liked)

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