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All the news on his speech seems to be about HS2 but I think that this is important too.

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[-] ndru@lemmy.world 153 points 1 year ago

Trans people are literally just trying to get on with their lives while bigots obsess about them.

The same type of people said the same things about women getting the vote, interracial couples, and homosexuality.

I hope history continues to move in the right direction and leave these nosey fucks as nothing more than shameful memories.

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[-] InvertedParallax@lemm.ee 70 points 1 year ago

Hey, will you look at the time!

Its 'generate political cover for the Tories privatizing the NHS' o'clock again!

[-] Mr_Blott@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Tonight on BBC news, loads of shit happened in the world but strangely we're started with "The NHS is failing" as top headline, again

🧐

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 31 points 1 year ago

I think if anything this is more important.
Sure, HS2 is a complete shambles and an embarrassment and we should be criticising what's going on, but this is a calculated and deliberate attack on human rights, and is a significantly bigger red flag that I wish more people took seriously.

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

It's also worth noting that HS2 is in shambles because Sunak, as chancellor, defunded and interfered with it

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 points 1 year ago

Imagine knowing the last 13 years of Tory rule have been such a disaster that you have to spend all your time whipping up a fury against .01% of the population in the gutter press to the point where transphobic hate crimes have risen in Britain by like 60%

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Well, looks like he is a bit behind on sciences. Maybe a few decades or so. Not unusual for a politician.

[-] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He is a despicable right-conservative populist who obviously says this for all the wrong reasons but that does not change the fact that the statement by itself is a correct one. Humans can change their gender, that is possible because gender is a more or less internalised, socio-cultural and therefore psychological construct. The sex of a human on the other hand is an inherent, biological and physiological quality, written into each cells DNA. Therefore the sex of a person could only be changed by replacing chromosomes in every single cell of the individuals body. I very much hope for all trans people that it will become medically possible to change their sex in the future but at this point it is simply not medically possible and to deny this truth will not make the lifes of trans people better.

[-] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

This is true insomuch as you define sex as the 46th chromosome, but an argument can be made that that is overly simplistic. Nearly every cell in our body experiences some amount of sexual differentiation, and this is often mediated by Testosterone and Estrogen exposure. The complicating part is that trans people undergoing hormone replacement therapy do dramatically change their hormonal profile, and while some tissues are only meaningfully sensitive to sex hormones early in development (no amount of HRT is going to change your skeleton, for instance, or cause someone to grow a uterus), other tissues do remain sensitive to sex hormones and can meaningfully differentiate in adulthood causing significant medical effects. Estrogen, for instance, promotes blood clot formation, which is why (cis) women have a higher rate of them. Trans women who take estrogen, as would be expected, also have a higher rate of blood clots compared to cis men. If trans people are only changing gender, and gender is a strictly social phenomenon, we can't really explain this. Likewise, Testosterone can promote higher cholesterol levels that lead to heart attacks, which is why men have higher rates of them. Trans men taking Testosterone also experience this.

So, the fact of the matter is that trans people taking hormones go through biological changes that exactly parallel natural sexual differentiation, albeit in limited form. This has direct clinical relevance, as a trans man seeking cardiovascular medical support should not be treated the same way as a cis woman. Given this, there is a sound argument to be made that "biological sex" as defined in this way simply isn't sufficient to describe these kinds of people. At a biological level, they really do represent a kind of intermediate state in sexual differentiation, and this bears medical significance.

What it doesn't really bear, however, is social significance outside of very close intimate personal relationships. Regardless of whether you think having a strongly gendered society is a good thing or not, the fact is that we don't determine social gender through magical Chromosome-Scopes, but rather a complex mix of perceived traits, both of the body and things like voice, hair, clothing, personality, etc.

[-] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Very interesting and I agree with everything you wrote.

At a biological level, they really do represent a kind of intermediate state in sexual differentiation

I just wish one day all people who feel a need to do so will be able to transition entirely, not just socially but also biologically.

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[-] FlowVoid@midwest.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Your definitions of sex and gender are not in universal use, and they are not the definitions used by Sunak. So his statement was not "correct", because what it meant was not correct.

[-] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Your definitions of sex and gender are not in universal use

Interesting! What definitions are in universal use?

I think my definitions of sex and gender and the definitions of the Council of Europe seem pretty congruent though:

Sex refers to “the different biological and physiological characteristics of males and females, such as reproductive organs, chromosomes, hormones, etc.”

Gender refers to "the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed

source

and they are not the definitions used by Sunak

Good point, I assume that he (as the conservative-populist he is) probably meant to say gender when he said sex and that he wanted to imply that people can not change gender (which is obviously false because gender is a social construct and not an inherent biological quality).

All that does not change the fact that the statement "people can not change their sex" itself is a correct one though. As far as I understand logic, if somebody says something correct while meaning something incorrect, that does not change the true statement into a false one.

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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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