this post was submitted on 21 May 2026
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7
The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race - Jared Diamond 1999 (www.discovermagazine.com)
submitted 3 days ago by jet@hackertalks.com to c/carnivore@discuss.online
14 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

The advent of agriculture was a watershed moment for the human race. It may also have been our greatest blunder.

Great Article discussing the tradeoffs of agriculture by the famed Mr. Diamond

top 14 comments
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[–] glimse@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

The author has a strong tendency to draw the wrong conclusion from a piece of presented information. In almost every example, something other than agriculture is obviously to blame for the problems described.

I stopped reading at the example about the teeth of Native Americans. They say agriculture was a response to a growing population... Overpopulating to the point of making hunting unsustainable was the mistake.

This was right after the example of the agricultural area of Greece (or somewhere, I forgot) being shorter than their neighbors. As if health was measured in height??

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

To be fair height is a pretty good proxy of nutritional adequacy in childhood. Being neighbors is important because the genetics will be similar.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Sure, it can be. But the fact it that they're STILL shorter with agriculture as the global standard kinda defeats the point

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

But the fact it that they’re STILL shorter with agriculture as the global standard kinda defeats the point

If the genetics create taller adults using the pre-agricultural diet, then that is a valid data point to keep track of, it isn't pointless. It's a indication the current diet isn't optimizing the genetic protentional

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

That's my point, though. We don't have predators to fight so size is no longer the advantage it used to be.

Our height is not what put us at the top of the food change. Our "genetic potential" is in our brains.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

We don't have predators to fight so size is no longer the advantage it used to be.

Height doesn't help us take down a diprotodon, it helps us win against the neighbouring tribe

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Sure, but that, too, became a lot less important

[–] psud@aussie.zone 3 points 2 days ago

Sure, but evolution is slow, we've only had farming and cities for 10k years, less in many places; hundreds of years for natives of America and Australia. We're still adapted to the tribal life hunting and gathering

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

We don’t have predators to fight so size is no longer the advantage it used to be.

It is possible our genetics have adapted to a shorter height, but 30,000 years is not much time for that and we have the record demonstrating the drop in height at the time of agriculture.

So, the question is if modern people from these regions take on a pre-agriculture diet, will the get taller? I think it's likely

Our “genetic potential” is in our brains.

Right, question is - what else is being stunted by the major change in diet? It might include brain function.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Maybe, but agriculture is a necessity to feed a population our size. We've hunted hundreds of species to extinction by eating them faster than they can reproduce

Agriculture wasn't the mistake. Population growth was.

[–] xep@discuss.online 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Stunting is a clear sign of nutrient deficiency in childhood.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

So every child in the area is STILL nutrient deficient? And why didn't their neighbors get shorter when they moved to agriculture?

Like the rest of the points, it has the semblance of logic but kind of falls apart with some critical thought

[–] xep@discuss.online 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You asked about health and height. They are related. It's good to be skeptical about observational studies.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

I'm not disputing that height can be an indication of nutritional deficiency but nutrition isn't measured in height. The author cherry picks it as evidence despite the same thing not happening elsewhere before immediately moving on.

It reminds me a lot of the way flat earthers write, albeit not insane. They chain together several flimsy claims together so you think "hmm that makes sense" but don't have time to poke holes in it before the next theory