Lol thank god. “Free speech” instances are absolute cancer.
It's never about Free Speech either. It's almost always about the ability to post racist, bigoted, shit ass content with 0 repercussions.
I am a huge proponent of free speech - as in, I don’t think it’s appropriate for any government to tell you what you’re allowed and not allowed to say.
I am also a huge proponent of helping people find out when they fuck around and abuse that right while expecting zero consequences.
#MakeNazisAfraidAgain
I don't agree. I think a government should absolutely have the ability to limit speech, but not any speech in directed towards criticizing said government. If the last few years have proven anything "citizens" aren't not up to the task of preventing or stopping hateful rhetoric.
That’s a fair point… but my issue with that sort of setup is that it depends on the government not being co-opted or corrupted by those very same people, which can’t necessarily be guaranteed. To wit: Florida, Texas, Idaho, etc.
These days it feels like a crap shoot either way.
This sentiment always pops up when the topic is discussed, but it doesn't really make any sense.
Any sort of setup depends on the government not being co-opted or corrupted.
Free speech absolutism does nothing to prevent a corrupt government from censoring you.
You can't really use that as an argument for free speech absolutism when it suffers from the exact same issue.
Do you believe governments counties like Saudi Arabia, Russia and China should have the ability to limit speech, as long as it's about things other than government criticism?
Your approach would suggest that you think it's acceptable that the Russian government is censoring any "LGBT propaganda" and retaliationg against citizens for it with fines and prison time.
The problem with people who have conditions for free speech is that they think they (or those who they agree with) will be the ones deciding what those conditions are.
I don't think all speech should be protected.
You can't abuse a right. That's why it's a right.
Also you're confusing Free Speech with the First Amendment. It's concerning that it's a very common mistake from people with strong opinions on the topic.
Free Speech is not exclusively about governments. It's a principle that ideas should be allowed to be exchanged without restriction. Yes, even the ideas that are pretty much indefensible.
The reason isn't because we want indefensible ideas to spread, it's because we can't trust any entity or even the society to decide what is acceptable to express. For example, in many countries you will simply get beaten up for expressing support for LGBT rights, regardless of government censoring you. They are using the "fuck around and find out" approach.
I am also a huge proponent of helping people find out when they fuck around and abuse that right while expecting zero consequences. #MakeNazisAfraidAgain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech :
Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction
Emphasis mine. You're not a huge proponent of free speech. You sound like you're only a proponent of the first amendment.
Nah. You’re off-base here. You’re very clearly falling prey to the Paradox of Tolerance.
I'm not sure the fine folks that come crawling out of the woodwork to defend free speech specifically when it's Nazis are falling prey to anything, unfortunately
"Free speech to say what" is a very demanding question to some people. The vast majority will avoid it by saying "anything I want".
Stopping and asking what you aren't allowed to say out loud, and from whom will the consequences be doled out, paints a very clear picture. It's never good shit they can't say, and it's never the govt that is punishing them. Beyond that, nothing in the Constitution says I need to listen to whatever bullshit they wanna say.
I'm not in the US. Living in Canada right now and we have hate speech laws for exactly this reason.
Ours are...not quite as robust. The social implications are there, which I think should be the greater pressure than specific govt laws. Those are short sighted and do nothing to teach aside from punish. Social ostracization and breakdowns in your life pose a much more tangible alternative. The problem now is that getting "canceled" is a badge of honor to 40% of the citizens here.
Yeah I hear you. That sentiment has been slowly seeping up north too. "Woke" or "Cancel" culture are the new calling card for racists and bigots et al. Most of these people just pining for the days where they can just be openly racists and such again.
It's crazy. I very much reside in "live and let live" country, but the second someone wears overalls, drives a Subaru, and uses pronouns, they start threatening to shut the library down because the Clinton Pedo ring has made it to Bumfuck town...
"Freedom of association" is a major part of free speech/expression... when certain types start harping about their freeze peach, what they are really saying is that they want to take away others freedom to associate... or dissociate, as it were.
It’s important to note that most people that scream about freedom of speech are actually wanting freedom from consequences for shit behavior. You can have a freedom of speech instance that promotes civility and educated discourse and I’m here for it. If your idea of free speech is that you have the right to scream at other people, act hatefully and abusively, and cram your ideas down other people’s throats, you’re just an idiot.
I think /r/asktrumpsupporters was a great example of this. You can take people of hugely different backgrounds and beliefs and have civil discourse. Any other site or instance just claiming ‘muh free speech’ is likely full of shit and has a tainted foundation.
I said this in the hexbear threads, freedom of speech on your part does not constitute an obligation to listen on my part.
Not only that, but if you’re gonna exercise your free speech in a way that’s obnoxious, don’t be surprised when it’s reciprocated.
Thank you! All of their users were the usual freeze peach trolls and needed the yeeting.
Good
Full support from me 👍
And nothing of value was lost.
Thanks jonah, especially for listening to the instance users and taking a neutral and critical stand.
Also, consider the Threads defederation thing if it will happen.
Thanks for your hard work, and yeah eff the guys that spew bigotry, hate and misinformation in the guise of being truthful or embracing free speech! Thanks Jonah
Good!
Also sh.itjust.works voted to defederate exploding-heads, so let's give them credit!
That place is fucking vile. Glad to be rid of them!
Great work! Glad to see it happen, and thank you for listening to your community. full support.
So I did not check that instance, but is its content like literally exploding heads?
I don't think it's literal. From what others have posted about their overall content, it sounds like it goes with the right wing blogosphere trope of "making liberal heads explode."
They like to wink wink nudge nudge as if their BS is just trolling, and that their end goal is to piss off left leaning people.
But per the Sartre quote, they know what they're doing. The plausible deniability is a convenient way for them to deflect from the content of their speech and try to flip around to tone police the people they hate.
Any plans to add Hexbear to the list? I've noticed over the last few days a lot of these members posting nothing but Nazi/racist gifs/images into random comment sections.
Alternatively, anyone know how to block an instance yourself?
Thanks for letting me surf memes
Excellent. This is the system working as designed. They can say whatever rancid shit they want and anyone who wants to partake of that can go do it over there, but we don't have to act as a broadcasting relay for them.
Thank you.
A place to discuss or ask anything about lemmy.one's instance or moderation.
For discussion about Lemmy (the software) itself, visit !lemmy@lemmy.ml