I'm hopeful that lemmy reaches critical mass because of Reddit's absurd policies.
It's getting there... The Reddit wave should be enough to get us there if the servers hold up semidecently
Even if the servers don't. I'd rather deal with downtime (aka forced detox😅) than the ads, the negative trolls, the dumb UI that constantly pushes their app, and so on. Reddit only works because it has so much fresh content. If that breaks down than so will it.
It feels weird to want history to repeat itself, but I'm really hoping Reddit has to deal with the ironic situation of users migrating from the platform en masse due to awful management decisions.
I've said it (with a different wording) on some post on reddit, I'm saying it again here: I want history to repeat itself. Not because I have a sadistic need to see reddit fail, but because this will ultimately be better for the users.
All of these protests are a nice sentiment, but I can't help but think the take I've read from some people is right: this is all a "door in the face" technique from Reddit to get people to accept a more reasonable compromise on pricing that they were going for all along, but without taking as much of a PR hit. So people will be relatively happy, and meanwhile reddit will have squeezed redditors just a little more, as they have been doing little by little in the last years. It's a boiling frog scenario.
So this protest may well "reverse" this specific situation, but it won't reverse the general trend on governance on Reddit that has been slowly going on for a few years already, mostly around the time that Victoria got canned.
So, to that end, I really want to stop using reddit regardless of the outcome of this debacle. Lemmy seems promising, although it does have its own set of problems. But it's still on its infancy, I'm sure it'll grow and at least some of these problems will be fixed.
I don't want to sound like an elitist, but I guess I will regardless: the most important number of people simply don't care.
I think it's safe to say that the people who will be affected by the new API pricing and other decisions, as well as the people who want to protest at least some of it at least somehow (be it boycotting for a few days or migrating to fediverse in any capacity) are simply not the demographic that the Reddit board really cares about. Not necessarily because they're evil, anti-privacy, Machiavellian moneybags (they still are), but because Reddit is a business, a big one, and big businesses care about money more than anything else.
I'm not really optimistic about the boycott and any other aftermath. I think the best we'll see is influx of users on lemmy and other instances, which is good, but that's about it, and I'm fine with it.
Part of me thinks that while a majority of folks will remain on reddit, the most active, engaged members will leave. ...the mods, the people posting original content, the people posting the most replies.
Over time, the content on reddit could become even more stale, repetitive, and low quality.
Oh, I agree with you. Whatever happens here, it won't mean an exodus en masse from Reddit to Lemmy ( or to any other platform for that matter) on the immediate future. Reddit will bleed users, only in a long timescale.
I'm not as sure as you are about how things will play out exactly, so for now I'm just watching the situation with curiosity. But I'll say this: while the majority of users don't care, those who DO care I (want to) believe are also the ones that generally tend to generate higher-quality content, while those who don't care (again, I want to believe) tend to be either lurkers or generate lower quality content, although the split here might be closer to 50/50 - we don't know. But in that case, one likely scenario is that in one or a few years Reddit will have so much low-effort and low-quality content that it will just naturally lose any appeal, and people will move on to something else.
3rd Party mobile apps will make people think a bit. once moderation goes to crap and everything gets worse, that will make a dent, but a slower one.
I think the minute they get rid of old.reddit.com they will see a giant loss of people.
Then all thats left are the people who like reddit looking like facebook
Really looking very "investor focused" 🤢
Alexis Ohanian, founder of rival site Reddit, said in an open letter to Rose (of Digg):
this new version of digg reeks of VC meddling. It's cobbling together features from more popular sites and departing from the core of digg, which was to "give the power back to the people."
Time really is a flat circle.
Also I only made that top comment to test Lemmy/Mastodon interaction. Hi from Mastodon! The fediverse is cool!
I'd not say a flat circle.
Mark Twain has this wonderful quote - "History doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes."
VC meddling
In this case, Advance Publications is the group pulling the strings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Publications
Ahh here it comes. Expect more - IPO layoffs (from personal experience) are definitely a thing
May I ask what the whole "IPO" thing is?
Initial Public Offer. Basically, the company going public on the stock market. They tend to try and look "shiny" before going public to make them attractive to buyers who want to make money from investing into the company.
In my experience (from working a place that has done this) they will do some waves of layoffs and make some operational budget cuts, as well as sometimes freeze some capex spending so the books look juicier. This includes things that may cause long-term harm, for short ish (under a year) gain.
Script is pretty similar with most companies that do this in tech, with predictable results.
Firstly I want to really thank you for taking time to write up this response.
Anyways it definitely makes sense what reddit it doing, although it's no excuse for being such a little bitch. So in other words, let them burn lol
To be fair, most tech companies had layoffs in the last six months and it seems that most were bigger cuts. Also, my best guess is that Reddit has been unprofitable/burning cash from the beginning (~18 years) - that can't and won't last forever.
The only thing I ask myself right now is: Do they get rid of porn subs before IPO or shortly after?
Oh no! Anyway...
Unfortunately the responsible for the shitshow aren't in the 5% who will have their lives upended.
Sympathies to them, yes.
Totally a sign of an ultra-successful IPO!
The fucked up thing is that it kind of is...layoffs of this kind almost always have a positive impact on stock prices, which is why they do them. Gotta love capitalism!
Ah yes pre-IPO wallstreet pleasing. If I remember correctly wework also pulled this, and so did a few others.
Some people have been saying a 2-day blackout isn't going to do much. But if they're struggling financially it will most likely really hurt them.
They're not doing this because they are struggling. Its a common tactic for shitty corporations to do so it looks like they made a shit ton more money and can claim losses on their taxes
Hopefully if the 2-day blackout is unsuccessful they'll extend it or plan more blackouts.
I'd imagine so... it makes sense to me to start with 2 days, and then go from there, rather than starting with the "nuclear" option.
Does Reddit have the power to un-blackout the subreddits? I.e. Overrule the mods and open things up? I feel like, as in most cases, there are a modest sized group of high caring individuals that will reject/boycott/cancel reddit, but the majority of users, casual and the ones that make reddit their life, will just continue on, only slightly inconvenienced.
Yes Reddit could do that... but mods are extremely valuable, and a lot of subs would stop working without them. Reddit has already been moving to big subs being moderated by Reddit employees, and it generally kills the sub.
Reddit is big enough that it probably won't die quickly (e.g. like Digg did), but my guess is that this kind of policy shows that the best days of Reddit are in the past.
Reddit is big enough that it probably won’t die quickly (e.g. like Digg did), but my guess is that this kind of policy shows that the best days of Reddit are in the past.
i think twitter is a good model for how we might expect this to go: a slow but undeniable decay into a worse, less functional, generally more miserable site to be on. when the decay will end? who knows. but there'll likely be an obvious before and after, and an equally obvious point where the site goes from a vanguard of influence online to a social media backwater.
in fact a good metric for this might be when reddit stops contributing anywhere near as many productive search results as it currently does. that's undeniably a big use of the site for people so it'd be noteworthy for that to disappear (and despite itself being a symptom of bad things it'd probably be quite bad overall, given the state of online generally right now.)
I saw somewhere (can't remember if it was here or not) that they think Reddit might not be too worried about the 3rd party apps because it makes up such a small user base. So it could potentially be a vocal minority who are actually being affected. Then again what do I know about running a website with millions of daily users, so it could be way off.
If that's true, it's even more asinine. A small number of users make numerous API calls from third-party apps, and in doing so, create all the content that the majority of users are perusing with ads? The quest for short-term gains so often harms long-term viability in corporate America, and I truly just don't understand how we keep hiring C-level people that keep making the same mistakes over and over
Because C-Level people are more about "how can this company make money" and less about "how can this company treat its workers/customers well" (unless the latter leads to the former).
They are told that increasing value for the investors is the thing that matters. If you have to make "tough choices" that abuse the workers or destroy the brand, oh well. It's worth it if that revenue number keeps going up. To them, it's an acceptable loss to keep the board happy.
Every company that has VC, investors, or stock is going to be like this at one point or another. It's just getting more blatant and obvious now. Disney, WB, Netflix, Twitter, Reddit...it's a list that just keeps growing.
Go go capitalism!
All this has me wondering. Lemmy and other fediverse sites should be resistant to enshittification. But how could American corporations screw that up? Could they start their own servers and instances, and somehow make them dominant? Or would that not be worth it to them?
It seems to me that capitalism has pretty much been trying to take over everything, with a lot of success. So I find myself wondering if it could happen here.
Theoretically some large company could use the "embrace, extend, extinguish" model to take over "open" standards. Microsoft was famous back then for using this strategy. It would look something like this:
Embrace: large company creates a really stable and well moderated instance that federates with almost everything to attract users
Extend: large company adds custom features to the instance that are incompatible with other instances
Extinguish: people stop using other instances as incompatibilities start impacting user experience. Big instance might also stop federating with other instances, so users are forced to use their instance to see content. After this, big company starts making the platform shittier to make more money.
The way things are going, they will be laying off many more soon.
They really want that IPO money
Rise and shine my friends.
🍿 let it burn 🔥
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