Objection

joined 2 years ago
[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 34 minutes ago* (last edited 34 minutes ago)

Even if that's true, they are still in the US sphere of influence just like Saudi Arabia, and that's all that US politicians care about. They will happily overlook Israeli crimes just as they overlook Saudi crimes, and I don't see people suggesting the Saudis have blackmail material.

What do people mean by saying the US does whatever Israel wants? Sending them weapons to kill brown kids in Palestine, Lebanon, etc? The US wants to do that. Bombing Iran? The US wants to do that. Either you have to take the theory further and say that the whole reason the US wants to dominate the region is for Israel's sake (I don't know why they can't just want to dominate it for their own sake), or you have to ignore all the conflicts the US has gotten involved in in the region that aren't directly related to Israel, brushing them off as coincidence.

Either way, the simplest explanation is that the US is simply a militaristic state hellbent on domination and expansion through conquest, motivated by the same things that have always motivated imperial conquest, from Rome to Britain.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (2 children)

No. Of course it's possible, but if the only evidence is that he's doing everything Israel wants, then does Israel also have something on the vast majority of Congress? Did they have something on Biden, Obama, Bush, etc?

The simpler and more likely explanation is that all these politicians support Israel for other reasons, because Israel serves as an unsinkable aircraft carrier for the US and a staging ground to conduct it's campaigns of terror and conquest across the MENA region. Look at how many countries in that region the US has destabilized: Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iran, and of course the Israelis themselves are attacking Palestine and Lebanon. Virtually every country that isn't already in the US sphere of influence. This is a consistent campaign of conquest that goes across decades of different administrations.

You don't have to blackmail US politicians to get them to bomb brown kids in the Middle East, it's what they all want to do anyway.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago

The first step to finding a solution is to recognize that the existing tools are woefully insufficient. Suppose we didn't have elections at all, suppose all we had was a monarchy where the only recourse within the system was to petition the king, to ask him nicely to act on our behalf. Should we still rely on that? Should we drop other approaches because they might sour the king's mood?

With a little imagination, you can find that there are inherent mechanisms for asserting power that are not provided by the system and which exist regardless of the system's best efforts to take them away. All systems are manmade and can be changed and dismantled if enough people stop cooperating with it. This does not have to look like a traditional revolution, with pitched battles and whatnot. Strikes, protests, development of mutual aid networks and dual power structures, even targeted boycotts can be more effective than voting for a candidate hand-picked by the ruling class.

The electoral system keeps people disorganized and divided, it directs energy away from those tactics instead of towards them. The idea that non-disruptive tactics could possibly someday produce change makes people unwilling to engage in tactics that are more disruptive, because nobody really likes being disruptive, taking risks, creating tension, but that tension is necessary to effect change.

The effect that electoral politics has on defining people's political identities cannot be overstated. The moment you cast your vote, no matter how reluctant it may be, there will be a part of you that wants to justify and defend your choice and before you know it you're now defending things that you never would otherwise. Nearly all political discourse becomes colored by this question of who to vote for. Again, think about how you would read news stories differently if you had no mechanism within the system for expressing your voice. But that is essentially where we're at because the mechanisms provided by the system are ineffective, but while we have this idea that they could be effective, people still define themselves along those lines.

Let me give you an example. I live in a solidly blue state, previously, I lived in a solidly red state for most of my life. At no point has my vote for president had any impact on the outcome whatsoever. This is true for the vast majority of Americans. And yet, when I talk about my refusal to vote Harris or Biden, people yell at me, a lot. Why? It has no material impact. It's because it's primarily a cultural signifier, a way of defining a political identity, and any material consequences are of secondary consideration. So long as people are allowing bourgeois parties to shape and define their political identities, that's going to dissuade them from engaging in direct action.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 day ago

There was a tendency in this era to adopt extremist positions in reaction to the USSR and Kruschev and the fear of something similar happening in China. Even in China itself, this led to the excesses of the Cultural Revolution, with student-led militias killing each other, committing atrocities, performing show trials, etc. There was overcompensation that, afaik, went beyond anything that happened during the actual revolution, and some of it was just maximalist rhetoric thrown around to performatively demonstrate how unlike the revisionist Soviets they were, sometimes without really meaning it.

The Khmer Rouge was kinda like a kid getting relationship advice from someone going through a messy breakup. They took the most extreme rhetoric going around in China and internalized it. The Chinese communists didn't really educate the Cambodian movement on basic tenets like "don't be racist," that the fledgling Cambodian movement actually needed but which the Chinese likely took for granted, and instead just emphasized, "don't be revisionist." For the same reason, the PRC wasn't really watching out for the possibility of them becoming too violent/genocidal.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

Username checks out.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

That's completely ridiculous.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

"You're a paranoid crazy for thinking the CIA is influencing people's views."

"But the CIA does influence people's views, and here's evidence."

"Stop making this about the CIA!"

Lol ok.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

their own altruistic pacifistic based conclusion is just CIA propaganda.

Lol, right. I guess propaganda just doesn't work then, all you have to do is come to "your own conclusions."

Go back in time a bit and people's "own conclusions" were that the CIA was uninvolved in the Iranian coup. And they arrived at those conclusions because the CIA lied about it and covered it up. And you would be dismissing the people who suspected their involvement as "paranoid crazies."

It's just ridiculous. What do you think propaganda even looks like? A secret service agent just walks up and starts telling you shit? Absolutely laughable.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

Do you think the question of whether the CIA actually does evil stuff and successfully covers it up is unrelated to whether people are "paranoid crazies" for thinking that the CIA is doing evil stuff and covering it up?

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago (8 children)

I have no idea what that even means.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago (10 children)

You can care all you want about human rights, that doesn't mean you're not falling for propaganda.

The CIA once overthrew the peaceful, democratic government of Iran, and covered up their involvement for decades. Why would they not be able to do similar things today? Did they just woke up one day and suddenly get a change of heart, after facing no consequences for their actions? And that's just one example, they did similar things in so many countries all around the globe. You just don't often hear about it, because, well...

If you don't think the feds are capable of exploiting concern about human rights to influence people's opinions, I don't even know what to tell you.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago

Also did it with no comms, and zero casualties. So like a no hit 100% speedrun of the Death Star trench run.

 
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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by Objection@lemmy.ml to c/socialism@lemmy.ml
 

The political compass is an attempt to reduce incredibly complicated political questions into two simple lines, and people accept it because it aligns with oversimplified narratives and cultural preconceptions.

"Liberty" and "authority" have little meaning beyond "good" and "bad." If authority is defined more rigorously, or if we use more neutral terms like "centralization" or public vs private, then it becomes a lot less clear that what we're talking about is contrary to "liberty." The private sector, and private individuals, can be just as restrictive of liberty.

Perhaps the clearest example of this is the American Civil War. The southerners were the champions of decentralization, they spoke constantly about how they were fighting for "liberty" against the supposed tyranny of the northerners - and the reason they wanted "states' rights" and decentralization is that they would be able to keep people enslaved. It was big, centralized government, that evil "authoritarian" force imposing it's authority that resulted in a greater degree of liberty. But that is not just some freak exception.

If someone can't go out at night without fear of being attacked, that person is no more "free" to go out than if they feared legal repercussions. Governments are, at their worst, no different from a criminal organization, and yet there is this tendency to assign special status to restrictions imposed by the law, rather than being on the same level as restrictions imposed by private individuals or organizations.

And again, we can see how "big government" or "authoritarianism" can increase liberty in the context of regulations, of pollution, of food safety, and of untested drugs. If I can trust regulators to stop a restaurant from serving anything unsafe, then I'm free to order anything off the menu, whereas if not, then everything's a gamble and I might feel restricted to foods I expect to be "safe," if I don't avoid the restaurant entirely.

There once was a time when states viewed things like murder as a personal dispute between families, and didn't generally get involved. This led to all kinds of generational feuds, with people killing each other over a long forgotten dispute between their great-grandfathers. Was that "liberty?" Is that something we should idealize and try to return to?

I'm sure there are people who will read this as me being "pro-authoritarian" and ignoring all the bad things done by states. But that's missing the point. The point is not that centralization or state power are always good, the point is that it's not automatically bad. Having a knee-jerk reaction against it is just oversimplifying complicated issues, and doing so in a way that lots of powerful people want you to do. Because the ruling class understands that they can wield private institutions and privatization just as they can wield public institutions.

You can't just blindly apply an idealist ideological framework of "anti-authoritarianism" to every problem and expect that to produce good results. You have to look at things on a case-by-case basis, applying class analysis.

 
 

This remains relevant as Ukraine has never apologized for these atrocities, continues to reject that these attacks constituted "genocide," and has criticized Poland for establishing July 11 as a day for commemorating the victims. And of course, it still uses the same slogans ("Slava Ukraini"), the same symbols (such as the red and black flag), and reveres Stepan Bandera (who was the head of the OUN, which in turn founded the UPA which carried out these attacks).

 

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/5524375

Context 1 2

Many abolitionists have complained to me that, as a traveling performer, I have not spoken to my audiences on the issue of slavery. I have received many angry letters attacking me based on assumptions about what my silence means.

Allow me to make my position clear: I oppose the institution of slavery. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, I believe it is a "moral depravity." I feel that way about other things as well.

After the raid on Harper's Ferry, the mood among Southern leaders was an existential panic and unstoppable lust for revenge. It reminded me of the Alamo. There was no reasoning with those leaders, nor could action be taken by congress. It would have required replacing most of congress and overturning decades of bipartisan negotiation and compromises. Even in the best case, it would have taken years.

But even worse, the abolitionist, pro-Negro movement quickly decided that their primary goal was not merely opposition to the reprisals or specifically cruel owners, but opposition to the entire institution of slavery, that is, opposition to the entire way of life of Southern plantation owners. And here they decided to draw the line between decent people and oppressive tyrants, which had the following consequences:

It shrunk the coalition. Most southerners support slavery. Anyone who supports the solution of having slave states and free states supports slavery.

It was politically infeasible. What is the pathway that takes us from the present situation to the abolition of slavery as an institution? I do not see how it could happen without a total collapse of the union. As usual, these Jacobins have championed a doomed cause.

The abolitionists have been distributing hundreds of pamphlets about the horrid conditions of slaves. The main effect of this has been to create a population of people in a constant state of bloodboiling rage with no consequential political outlet.

I fear this may be worse than useless. Yes, there are disingenuous proponents of slavery dismissing and censoring all criticism of slavery on the pretext of "states' rights." But there's also valid fear of historical government overreach and that fear gives power to pro-slavery leaders who say that only they can protect Southern culture.

Does this mean slavery should not be criticized? Absolutely not. But it's something I do not wish to contribute to unless if not outweighed by tangible benefits.

Many abolitionists have been single-mindedly focused on slavery, and the willingness of the Republicans to compromise on the issue, and that focus has had the following effects:

Not a single slave was freed by their efforts. Not one fewer lash was delivered by the owners.

It may have slightly contributed to the election of James Buchanan, ensuring that nothing can be done to stop the expansion of slavery into new states. Buchanan also does not support giving women like me the right to vote. A perfectly enlightened being would feel no bitterness about this, but I do.

None of this is the fault of slaves, of course, who are overwhelmingly the victims here.

But if women like me are ever going to get anywhere in this country, we need a broad movement that stands up for the rights of ALL women, REGARDLESS of their views on slavery.

 

"By your logic, you could justify a foreign armed insurgency against the US government" smuglord

link

 

Wait shit, I gotta come up with a different bit. Germans are already a thing.

 
 
 

Post criticizes Trump for lifting sanctions on Syria and calls Julani "a known terrorist" linked to "the deaths and injuries of dozens of American troops."

If this isn’t enough to flex your second amendment rights, kiss your fucking country good bye. We’ll be building a wall on the 49th

Yeah, you know, I was fine with all this other stuff, but "lifting sanctions on Syria" is my red line, that's the thing I'm really gonna fight and die for.

Doing Business with LITERAL TERRORISTS is a BIG BRAIN BUSINESS MOVE that will HELP the US!

Kill all the Americans you want as long as you bribe the toddler-in-chief…

It's so easy to get these people to hate foreigners. Literally just a random post from a random guy, they know nothing about the situation or the history and don't care to look into it before just agreeing with whatever.

How can any US friendly leader feel safe when Americans are insane chauvinists who are so fickle and uninformed, so ready to turn on them at the drop of a hat? Bribing/appeasing the ruling class is their only shot.

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