Objection

joined 2 years ago
[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

they are not intrinsically members of a nation and the support of that nation does not translate into their liberation.

That is what's traditionally known as "The National Question" and it's a lot more debatable and nuanced than you give it credit for.

Let's take the example of Ireland, which was much discussed by various Marxists historically. The movement for Irish independence was not inherently socialist, and the resulting state was still a capitalist system. It was defined more along the lines of nationality than class. However, under the existing system, Ireland had been horribly exploited and abused by the English, and so, this raises the question of whether socialists ought to lend support to such a movement, even though it is not ideologically pure. This is, of course, not something that is specific to Ireland.

Practically speaking, many struggles for independence have historically been more national in character. Frantz Fanon, for instance, was one Marxist who argued strongly for supporting such national liberation movements, observing that oppressed cultures can be stifled in psychological and cultural development because all they can think of is to be free of foreign control. Furthermore, the disparity between the rich and the poor of a colonized country may be less than that of the disparity between colonizer and colonized, and therefore an alliance along class lines can be permissible. Only after removing the pressing outside problem does internal class conflict emerge (and with it class consciousness), and until then it is unreasonable to expect the proletariat of a colonized country to recognize common cause with the proletariat of a colonizing country, especially if said proletariat does not emphatically support decolonization.

In general, this idea that "everyone is included under the conception of the international proletariat" moves away from practical, materialist questions and towards abstract, idealist principles. The national question is very much a relevant and important question in the modern day. Yes, we can all say, "I support the liberation of the Iranian proletariat just like the proletariat of every country" but one person might "support Iranian liberation" through bombing the shit out of them, while another might support leaving them alone and letting them deal with their government on their own, in their own time.

Eventually and ideally, socialists are broadly agreed that in time national distinctions will fade away and become unimportant and irrelevant. However, this must be done voluntarily. If the oppressed are expected to give up their cultural or national identities in order to receive support from socialists in oppressor countries, than this expectation is, and will be seen as, just another foreign imposition.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Dealing with those environmental problems requires breaking the corporate power the profits from and perpetuates those problems, and breaking corporate power does get characterized as "just wanting chaos" by plenty of people.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 12 points 11 hours ago

Love a properly-sourced meme ❤️

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 7 points 12 hours ago

Redirecting money from the budgets of the people keeping himself alive is certainly a choice.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 7 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Somehow I think that if a president starts nationalizing the assets of rich white people, SCOTUS is going to decide it's not an official act.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 23 points 14 hours ago (4 children)

Does that extend to other countries like Cuba, Vietnam, or China? Also, what does "praise" entail, exactly? If someone posts misinformation about a country to make it look worse, and I correct it, does that constitute "praise?" If I oppose taking military (or economic) action against a country, is that the same as supporting said country?

If I were to say, "The DPRK does not force everyone to get the same haircut," is that acceptable? How about, "The largest military exercise takes place every year on the Korean DMZ where US forces practice bombing and invading the DPRK, as they did before in an extremely destructive conflict, and so, domestic policies aside, their hostility towards the US is understandable?"

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 15 hours ago

No? Those warmongering psychos were perfectly fine with bombing schoolchildren, they're just upset that he stopped bombing schoolchildren:

Trump’s former vice president Mike Pence also issued a rare criticism of his former boss, arguing the Memorandum of Understanding “does smack of the kind of appeasement that our administration rejected in the Obama-Iran nuclear deal”.

“I would urge the President to take a step back, continue the blockade and pursue a negotiated settlement that commits Iran to dismantling their nuclear program, dismantling this missile program, ends support for terrorist proxies and opens the strait.

“Failing that, we should let our Armed Forces finish the job on our terms,” he wrote on social media.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 27 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)

Yeah, sometimes I feel like we should just get it over with and start global thermonuclear war for no reason too. Just end it all, you know?

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago

The Republic and the Jedi Council don't exist in Luke's time. Luke is also the strongest Jedi, after Yoda dies. "Married" and "Future Father" are just lifestyle choices, one of which hadn't even happened yet.

Plus, Luke's getting sloppy makeouts with one of the leaders of the Rebellion, that has to count for something.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

Huh. This may be the first time "Trump just says what everyone's thinking" has actually been true.

 
 

The political compass is an attempt to reduce incredibly complicated political questions into two simple lines, and people accept it because it aligns with oversimplified narratives and cultural preconceptions.

"Liberty" and "authority" have little meaning beyond "good" and "bad." If authority is defined more rigorously, or if we use more neutral terms like "centralization" or public vs private, then it becomes a lot less clear that what we're talking about is contrary to "liberty." The private sector, and private individuals, can be just as restrictive of liberty.

Perhaps the clearest example of this is the American Civil War. The southerners were the champions of decentralization, they spoke constantly about how they were fighting for "liberty" against the supposed tyranny of the northerners - and the reason they wanted "states' rights" and decentralization is that they would be able to keep people enslaved. It was big, centralized government, that evil "authoritarian" force imposing it's authority that resulted in a greater degree of liberty. But that is not just some freak exception.

If someone can't go out at night without fear of being attacked, that person is no more "free" to go out than if they feared legal repercussions. Governments are, at their worst, no different from a criminal organization, and yet there is this tendency to assign special status to restrictions imposed by the law, rather than being on the same level as restrictions imposed by private individuals or organizations.

And again, we can see how "big government" or "authoritarianism" can increase liberty in the context of regulations, of pollution, of food safety, and of untested drugs. If I can trust regulators to stop a restaurant from serving anything unsafe, then I'm free to order anything off the menu, whereas if not, then everything's a gamble and I might feel restricted to foods I expect to be "safe," if I don't avoid the restaurant entirely.

There once was a time when states viewed things like murder as a personal dispute between families, and didn't generally get involved. This led to all kinds of generational feuds, with people killing each other over a long forgotten dispute between their great-grandfathers. Was that "liberty?" Is that something we should idealize and try to return to?

I'm sure there are people who will read this as me being "pro-authoritarian" and ignoring all the bad things done by states. But that's missing the point. The point is not that centralization or state power are always good, the point is that it's not automatically bad. Having a knee-jerk reaction against it is just oversimplifying complicated issues, and doing so in a way that lots of powerful people want you to do. Because the ruling class understands that they can wield private institutions and privatization just as they can wield public institutions.

You can't just blindly apply an idealist ideological framework of "anti-authoritarianism" to every problem and expect that to produce good results. You have to look at things on a case-by-case basis, applying class analysis.

 
 

This remains relevant as Ukraine has never apologized for these atrocities, continues to reject that these attacks constituted "genocide," and has criticized Poland for establishing July 11 as a day for commemorating the victims. And of course, it still uses the same slogans ("Slava Ukraini"), the same symbols (such as the red and black flag), and reveres Stepan Bandera (who was the head of the OUN, which in turn founded the UPA which carried out these attacks).

 

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/5524375

Context 1 2

Many abolitionists have complained to me that, as a traveling performer, I have not spoken to my audiences on the issue of slavery. I have received many angry letters attacking me based on assumptions about what my silence means.

Allow me to make my position clear: I oppose the institution of slavery. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, I believe it is a "moral depravity." I feel that way about other things as well.

After the raid on Harper's Ferry, the mood among Southern leaders was an existential panic and unstoppable lust for revenge. It reminded me of the Alamo. There was no reasoning with those leaders, nor could action be taken by congress. It would have required replacing most of congress and overturning decades of bipartisan negotiation and compromises. Even in the best case, it would have taken years.

But even worse, the abolitionist, pro-Negro movement quickly decided that their primary goal was not merely opposition to the reprisals or specifically cruel owners, but opposition to the entire institution of slavery, that is, opposition to the entire way of life of Southern plantation owners. And here they decided to draw the line between decent people and oppressive tyrants, which had the following consequences:

It shrunk the coalition. Most southerners support slavery. Anyone who supports the solution of having slave states and free states supports slavery.

It was politically infeasible. What is the pathway that takes us from the present situation to the abolition of slavery as an institution? I do not see how it could happen without a total collapse of the union. As usual, these Jacobins have championed a doomed cause.

The abolitionists have been distributing hundreds of pamphlets about the horrid conditions of slaves. The main effect of this has been to create a population of people in a constant state of bloodboiling rage with no consequential political outlet.

I fear this may be worse than useless. Yes, there are disingenuous proponents of slavery dismissing and censoring all criticism of slavery on the pretext of "states' rights." But there's also valid fear of historical government overreach and that fear gives power to pro-slavery leaders who say that only they can protect Southern culture.

Does this mean slavery should not be criticized? Absolutely not. But it's something I do not wish to contribute to unless if not outweighed by tangible benefits.

Many abolitionists have been single-mindedly focused on slavery, and the willingness of the Republicans to compromise on the issue, and that focus has had the following effects:

Not a single slave was freed by their efforts. Not one fewer lash was delivered by the owners.

It may have slightly contributed to the election of James Buchanan, ensuring that nothing can be done to stop the expansion of slavery into new states. Buchanan also does not support giving women like me the right to vote. A perfectly enlightened being would feel no bitterness about this, but I do.

None of this is the fault of slaves, of course, who are overwhelmingly the victims here.

But if women like me are ever going to get anywhere in this country, we need a broad movement that stands up for the rights of ALL women, REGARDLESS of their views on slavery.

 

"By your logic, you could justify a foreign armed insurgency against the US government" smuglord

link

 

Wait shit, I gotta come up with a different bit. Germans are already a thing.

 
 
 

Post criticizes Trump for lifting sanctions on Syria and calls Julani "a known terrorist" linked to "the deaths and injuries of dozens of American troops."

If this isn’t enough to flex your second amendment rights, kiss your fucking country good bye. We’ll be building a wall on the 49th

Yeah, you know, I was fine with all this other stuff, but "lifting sanctions on Syria" is my red line, that's the thing I'm really gonna fight and die for.

Doing Business with LITERAL TERRORISTS is a BIG BRAIN BUSINESS MOVE that will HELP the US!

Kill all the Americans you want as long as you bribe the toddler-in-chief…

It's so easy to get these people to hate foreigners. Literally just a random post from a random guy, they know nothing about the situation or the history and don't care to look into it before just agreeing with whatever.

How can any US friendly leader feel safe when Americans are insane chauvinists who are so fickle and uninformed, so ready to turn on them at the drop of a hat? Bribing/appeasing the ruling class is their only shot.

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