TestCaseInSpace

Which is a valid position to take. I never intended to change anyone's mind on what the right path was in 2024. For better and very much for worse we're all in the same leaky ass boat and it's going to take serious and sustained cross popular activism to keep us all from drowning. Harris Stans, hard line progressive Puritans, hell I'll take remorseful Trumpets because at this point it's more important to be doing damage control and repairs than it is to litigate who was responsible for getting us into this mess. To be clear I'm not suggesting you or most others in this thread are attempting to relitigate that, but I've seen an infuriating tendency to dismiss potential allies because something is "their fault" rather than doing the work of building a strong coalition. I'm of the opinion the only successful long term strategy is grassroots, pushing for principled candidates from all backgrounds who will follow through on their stated goals. Our first goal must be to stop the bleeding, but to heal the damage we MUST put a stop to the duoparty ratchet effect which has been pushing the US to the right for decades, and the only way to do that is to primary Dems from the left. To provide real and actionable solutions to the crises facing the US, and in a really fucked up way Trump has given this movement a generational opportunity. These idiots have shit the bed so hard they've created an opportunity for a seismic change in policy, and a corresponding appetite with swing voters.

I hope when you say you have no sympathy for those folks you're speaking facetiously. I understand how you feel, but it makes me very sad. Not that you in isolation are feeling this way but that such a position is understandable in the first place. This is a messed up time

Not in the abstract no, but I find the implication that someone who found Harris's stance on Gaza to be a deal breaker is thusly responsible for empowering Trump to count for sure. As I detailed above I voted for her despite my misgivings, I felt it was practical and effective harm reduction under the circumstances and I stand by that decision, but I refuse to condemn someone who came to a different conclusion and I'm openly critical of those who do.

The Democrats need to stand for more than "we're not Republicans", and Harris muzzled a popular and progressive VP pick in favor of sprinting to the right to pick up some fabled middle voters. Then people act indignant that she lost the support of the left wing in the process.

I resent the implication which is often made, that by standing for one's principles and refusing to support someone actively abetting a genocide one takes on responsibility for empowering the opponent, even if the opponent is objectively worse. And yeah Trump is worse, and by a lot it's not even a fucking contest, including on Gaza but that still doesn't make Harris or anyone else entitled to the votes of all Trump's political opponents. If you're selecting your candidate by who's the least worse the result will be a race to the bottom and I've got all the respect in the world for those who put their foot down even though I chose a different response

It's entirely fair to call me on that. To be more specific I had AOC in mind when I'd written this, particularly her decision to vote present when the Biden admin was forcing striking rail workers back to work. It'd kind of felt like a stab in the back at the time and still does but she's shown herself to be a person of principle and character since then so whether it was a misstep or a tactical decision I was misunderstanding I've softened a lot since then where she's concerned. She's not perfect obviously, no one in politics is and I learned a long time ago to not let perfect be the enemy of good but that still doesn't excuse enabling the status quo when other options exist. I think we're in a real crisis and I was especially angry about that when this was written, I'd said it was important to organize and network within your community, to take real action to reduce harm and to drum up support for real justice when the time comes, only to be hit with "Why organize when so many 'leftists' wouldn't even vote for Harris?" I'm paraphrasing as the comment has long since been deleted. This argument that we're in this mess because others voted wrong or stuck to a purity test boils my blood because not only do I think it's factually incorrect, it doesn't do a damn thing to fix the very real problems we're currently facing. I'm fed up with Schumer and the establishment Dems, and I'm even more fed up with progressives who wind up like Fetterman and compromise on their earlier principles but I recognize the need to work with less radical liberals because the alternative is pretty plainly fascism

Whatever you're in to man, just pick a safe word first

I'm just going to copy an earlier reply I've made to this argument, since nothing has changed

"Speaking as a leftist who swallowed my pride and voted for a fascist genocide supporter because for all her useless platitudes Harris was still a better option and I'm willing to admit that; go fuck yourself.

You want to know why people didn't get behind Harris? It's because her boss ran on rolling back the damage Trump 1.0 had done and then continued operating concentration camps on the southern border. It's because time and time again even the radical Democrats have proven themselves to be feckless, incompetent, hand-wringing cowards who can't be trusted to do the job they were elected for until it's time to "compromise with Republicans" by inflating the defense budget and passing tax cuts for the wealthy. Harris would have seen her approval numbers falter and start rounding up brown folks no different from Trump, the difference being she'd have kept her mouth shut about it and so would the media until six weeks before midterms. Her platform was a gun and a nightstick with a BLM sticker tacked onto it, no different from Biden or Obama.

Biden put ZERO pressure on Israel to reign in their genocide in Gaza and Harris would have done no differently source the United States has effectively unlimited leverage in this conflict and they refuse to use it no matter which side is in office. I voted for those lying crooks despite knowing that, but I don't blame a goddamn person for whom that was a deal breaker, it should be.

You know how Harris would have been different, she'd have been competent. She wouldn't have tanked the economy with these ridiculous tarrifs, cozied us up to Russia, threatened and alienated our closest allies and trading partners or surged DHS's budget to unthinkable levels, but the next Republican in office sure would have. The courts are packed, the Dems will always have a defector (just like mean old Joe Manchin), there will always be a convenient excuse why they're so feckless and ineffectual and all electing Harris would have done is delay the inevitable by another four years. Acting like the US' slide into authoritarianism which has been ongoing since the Wilson administration is anything new or aberrant to our current era is either wishful thinking or complete brainless ignorance of history. Trump isn't the problem, Trump voters aren't even the problem, this is the result of deep rooted contradictions in the very foundation of the Republic bearing their poison fruit.

All is not lost, others are getting organized, demonstrating, protesting, taking action. The only thing that gets us out of this is solidarity and mutual support but by all means, sit on your ass and continue to point fingers at others you'd seek to blame, because they were wrong and that's all that matters right?"

Try not to choke on that boot you're licking

The Super Famicom ports of the first three Wizardry titles have fan translations available on turnip trucks out there on the interwebs. Honestly great games that completely hold up if you're willing to forgive their willingness to murder your parties. The remake of Wizardry 1 is fantastic but it's very faithful in a warts & all sort of way to the Apple II version, as a matter of fact it's running the Apple II version under the hood in a similar way to that Oblivion Remaster from earlier this year. I don't know if this is still the case but when I played during early access you couldn't strip equipment from dead characters before the temple failed to raise them and they got dusted, which made losing geared characters that much more painful. Can't stress enough, a fantastic dungeon crawler though, if you like Darkest Dungeon or similar 'march these folks to their death' gameplay loops you'll feel right at home

Reminder that she was made VP as a reward for helping a dementia riddled corpse ratfuck an actually progressive candidate out of the primary.

How's that Super Delegate system treating you?

"when American needed people like you, you failed."

Shove your condescension up your hypocritical ass you self-righteous blowhard. You've no idea what I did or didn't do to try and avert this fucking crisis and if you think for a moment that "people like me" weren't and aren't fighting for our goddamn lives and those of our communities you're so ignorant it's galling. Fuck you

So let me ask you something then, if it's every group you've mentioned at fault for voting wrong or being insufficiently engaged what in the actual fuck are you hoping to accomplish by assigning blame beyond stoking your own ego?

It sounds to me like the leftist bogeyman you're so eager to pin all this on didn't have nearly the impact you claimed elsewhere in the thread, or is this still their fault in an election where the Republicans managed to take the popular vote?

"Leftists stayed home", so are protest voters the reason Harris lost or is it the fact she was a hypocritical liar with a decades long career propping up the prison industrial complex? She goes on Charlemagne Tha God's podcast laughing and joking that she never inhaled meanwhile nearly two thousand people were imprisoned on her orders for marijuana related offenses.

"Though she defended marijuana’s use for medicinal purposes as district attorney, her prosecutors in San Francisco convicted more than 1,900 people on cannabis-related offenses."

I'm not sure how you're able to type with your head rammed so far up your own ass but if you manage to get some fresh air you should realize that no amount of celebrities at the DNC is going to make up for the liberal establishment's failures on every single issue that matters. By the way, why the actual fuck didn't Obama push for codification of Roe? Why the hell did the entire blue team roll over for McConnell and allow the Republicans to stall Merrick Garland's supreme court nomination? Speaking of Garland why didn't that spineless coward prosecute Trump when he had the chance? Because they're complicit, we're already seeing the presumptive nominee sprint to the right on every single issue that matters to progressives, if our vote actually made a difference the Democrats would actually do something to earn it but we make such a convenient scapegoat when they lose don't we?

You're a rube

Speaking as a leftist who swallowed my pride and voted for a fascist genocide supporter because for all her useless platitudes Harris was still a better option and I'm willing to admit that; go fuck yourself.

You want to know why people didn't get behind Harris? It's because her boss ran on rolling back the damage Trump 1.0 had done and then continued operating concentration camps on the southern border. It's because time and time again even the radical Democrats have proven themselves to be feckless, incompetent, hand-wringing cowards who can't be trusted to do the job they were elected for until it's time to "compromise with Republicans" by inflating the defense budget and passing tax cuts for the wealthy. Harris would have seen her approval numbers falter and start rounding up brown folks no different from Trump, the difference being she'd have kept her mouth shut about it and so would the media until six weeks before midterms. Her platform was a gun and a nightstick with a BLM sticker tacked onto it, no different from Biden or Obama.

Biden put ZERO pressure on Israel to reign in their genocide in Gaza and Harris would have done no differently source the United States has effectively unlimited leverage in this conflict and they refuse to use it no matter which side is in office. I voted for those lying crooks despite knowing that, but I don't blame a goddamn person for whom that was a deal breaker, it should be.

You know how Harris would have been different, she'd have been competent. She wouldn't have tanked the economy with these ridiculous tarrifs, cozied us up to Russia, threatened and alienated our closest allies and trading partners or surged DHS's budget to unthinkable levels, but the next Republican in office sure would have. The courts are packed, the Dems will always have a defector (just like mean old Joe Manchin), there will always be a convenient excuse why they're so feckless and ineffectual and all electing Harris would have done is delay the inevitable by another four years. Acting like the US' slide into authoritarianism which has been ongoing since the Wilson administration is anything new or aberrant to our current era is either wishful thinking or complete brainless ignorance of history. Trump isn't the problem, Trump voters aren't even the problem, this is the result of deep rooted contradictions in the very foundation of the Republic bearing their poison fruit.

All is not lost, others are getting organized, demonstrating, protesting, taking action. The only thing that gets us out of this is solidarity and mutual support but by all means, sit on your ass and continue to point fingers at others you'd seek to blame, because they were wrong and that's all that matters right?

Fucking shitheel

What I think this fails to account for is the most energy intensive part of the models is not interacting with them but training them, which uses exponentially more energy.

Edit: I read over your source more carefully and I don't think the argument of "AI might be using 10 times less energy than we think" is an actual argument of any sort. I might have a golden pony who radiates pure love and shits chocolate donuts, prove I don't.

Here's facts, data centers are ramping up to train and operate AI and making water near their locations inaccessible source

Not to mention Musk's gas turbines source

The carbon output from any form of large scale industry is going to have an impact but a larger issue for me is depletion of resources and a frenzied mania surrounding some imaginary 'race' to beat others at a technology which is yet to turn a profit for anyone but Nvidia

That's all fair, to your point about the imposition of martial law however I think that's a critical point to emphasize. If the executive branch can't find a plausible excuse to start rounding up its enemies they'll fabricate one.

I think the expectation of a fair election in 2028 or even 2026 is very presumptive. I don't disagree with your premise that those voters would be critical to a Democratic victory in a fair election, I fear we're past that point now.

Either way my central concern remains the same, Harris was a mediocre candidate with a terrible strategy. Many less engaged voters didn't find her or her policies appealing, and among energized and enthusiastic voters on the left side of the aisle many saw swallowing their misgivings and voting for Harris anyway as a form of practical and strategic harm reduction, it was. Others found her support for Israel to be entirely incompatible with their own conscience, which I may not like but I can absolutely understand. That said the continuing and endless bickering every single time Trump does anything remotely harmful "I hope those lefties/protest voters/third party/enlightened liberals/tankies/rad libs/socdems/whomever are happy" as they did at the top of this thread is counterproductive when ICE is about two months away from throwing anyone they want in the back of a van. If you think I'm being hyperbolic there were already off the street kidnappings by DHS during the protests in Portland back in this administration's first term in office. That was a pilot program, and once they've built up their numbers we'll see a nationwide rollout. I'd advise you and anyone reading this to prepare themselves accordingly.

As for the elections, by all means organize, do voter drives, monitor your state's rolls to blunt the impact of their disenfranchisement; but don't focus on blaming a subgroup of people who are otherwise on your side for making a bad call. That election is over, now we have to deal with the consequences. This shit doesn't get better until we fix it and pointing fingers about a race we already lost does nothing but waste time we don't have

Also, love me some Zildjans