What's really incredible is their ability to say how we are evil propagandists with a straight face when probably 90+% of hexbears never/rarely interact with a single federated post and mostly just shitpost among ourselves
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/2061061
I was a little skeptical about Ibis, mainly for practical/technical reasons, not philosophical differences (link).
But something today really changed my mind as to the necessity of figuring out those practical/technical hurdles... I discovered that Wikipedia has widely cited associated site "WikiSource" as its only source for the contents of Salvador Allende's final speech before his death, and now that widely referenced page has been deleted from the site, for "Copyright violation", despite the fact that it almost certainly wasn't, and even if it were, no person in their right mind would ever claim it as such. On the wikipedia side, there's been no updates to the many references to that page, and on the WikiSource side, no serious discussion on the implications of just nuking that highly relevant to the public interest speech from their site, and no coordination between the two.
They cite some Chilean copyright law, copied from the spanish language WikiSource, but then somehow come to the opposite conclusion that the esWS people did! This was a user-submitted english translation too, so they threw out all of that user's work over a speculative claim by some friggin internet janitor and didn't think that might be relevant. And none of this would have ever come up if they didn't try to become their own source, rather than citing independent websites and other sources... So. Fucking. Stupid.
And this is after they had the EXACT same discussion 10-12 years ago. It was deleted, and then later restored, based on the EXACT same line of chilean law. But someone decided it was time for a revisit a few months back and now all the links to it are dead again. Just in case, idk, the family of salvador allende decides to sue wikipedia? fat fucking chance
Also to add insult to injury, the first line of their "Copyright Discussions" page is as follows:
This page hosts discussions on works that may violate Wikisource's copyright policy. All arguments should be based entirely on U.S. copyright law.
I get that due to treaties chilean law is probably relevant here but this is all just a wank-off between Um Actually
moderators so it still made me rage a little
Anyhow thankfully archive.org aren't such dweebs and I can share with you here the contents of the speech:
Speech:
Surely this will be the last opportunity for me to address you. The Air Force has bombed the antennas of Radio Portales and Radio Corporación.My words do not have bitterness but disappointment. May they be a moral punishment for those who have betrayed their oath: soldiers of Chile, titular commanders in chief, Admiral Merino, who has designated himself Commander of the Navy, and Mr. Mendoza, the despicable general who only yesterday pledged his fidelity and loyalty to the Government, and who also has appointed himself Chief of the Carabineros [national police].
Given these facts, the only thing left for me is to say to workers: I'm not going to resign! Placed in a historic transition, I will pay for the loyalty of the people with my life. And I say to them that I am certain that the seeds which we have planted in the good conscience of thousands and thousands of Chileans will not be shriveled forever.
They have force and will be able to dominate us, but social processes can be arrested by neither crime nor force. History is ours, and the people make history.
Workers of my country: I want to thank you for the loyalty that you always had, the confidence that you deposited in a man who was only an interpreter of great yearnings for justice, who gave his word that he would respect the Constitution and the law and did just that. At this definitive moment, the last moment when I can address you, I wish you to take advantage of the lesson: foreign capital, imperialism, together with the reaction, created the climate in which the Armed Forces broke their tradition, the tradition taught by General Schneider and reaffirmed by Commander Araya, victims of the same social sector who today are hoping, with foreign assistance, to re-conquer the power to continue defending their profits and their privileges.
I address you, above all, the modest woman of our land, the countrywoman who believed in us, the mother who knew our concern for children. I address professionals of Chile, patriotic professionals who continued working against the sedition that was supported by professional associations, classist associations that also defended the advantages of capitalist society. I address the youth, those who sang and gave us their joy and their spirit of struggle. I address the man of Chile, the worker, the farmer, the intellectual, those who will be persecuted, because in our country fascism has been already present for many hours -- in terrorist attacks, blowing up the bridges, cutting the railroad tracks, destroying the oil and gas pipelines, in the face of the silence of those who had the obligation to act. They were committed. History will judge them.
Surely Radio Magallanes will be silenced, and the calm metal of my voice will no longer reach you. It does not matter. You will continue hearing it. I will always be next to you. At least my memory will be that of a man of dignity who was loyal to his country.
The people must defend themselves, but they must not sacrifice themselves. The people must not let themselves be destroyed or riddled with bullets, but they cannot be humiliated either.
Workers of my country, I have faith in Chile and its destiny. Other men will overcome this dark and bitter moment when treason seeks to prevail. Go forward knowing that, sooner rather than later, the great avenues will open again and free men will walk through them to construct a better society.
Long live Chile! Long live the people! Long live the workers!
These are my last words, and I am certain that my sacrifice will not be in vain. I am certain that, at the very least, it will be a moral lesson that will punish felony, cowardice, and treason.
Santiago de Chile, 11 September 1973
I know this is far from the worst thing Wikipedia has ever done, but it really got to me, and I feel an organization with its priorities in order would never behave this way. And in a federated system, not only could I use an instance with its priorities in better order, but also other sites would have likely mirrored the content.
I was a little skeptical about Ibis, mainly for practical/technical reasons, not philosophical differences (link).
But something today really changed my mind as to the necessity of figuring out those practical/technical hurdles... I discovered that Wikipedia has widely cited associated site "WikiSource" as its only source for the contents of Salvador Allende's final speech before his death, and now that widely referenced page has been deleted from the site, for "Copyright violation", despite the fact that it almost certainly wasn't, and even if it were, no person in their right mind would ever claim it as such. On the wikipedia side, there's been no updates to the many references to that page, and on the WikiSource side, no serious discussion on the implications of just nuking that highly relevant to the public interest speech from their site, and no coordination between the two.
They cite some Chilean copyright law, copied from the spanish language WikiSource, but then somehow come to the opposite conclusion that the esWS people did! This was a user-submitted english translation too, so they threw out all of that user's work over a speculative claim by some friggin internet janitor and didn't think that might be relevant. And none of this would have ever come up if they didn't try to become their own source, rather than citing independent websites and other sources... So. Fucking. Stupid.
And this is after they had the EXACT same discussion 10-12 years ago. It was deleted, and then later restored, based on the EXACT same line of chilean law. But someone decided it was time for a revisit a few months back and now all the links to it are dead again. Just in case, idk, the family of salvador allende decides to sue wikipedia? fat fucking chance
Also to add insult to injury, the first line of their "Copyright Discussions" page is as follows:
This page hosts discussions on works that may violate Wikisource's copyright policy. All arguments should be based entirely on U.S. copyright law.
I get that due to treaties chilean law is probably relevant here but this is all just a wank-off between Um Actually moderators so it still made me rage a little
Anyhow thankfully archive.org aren't such dweebs and I can share with you here the contents of the speech:
Speech:
Surely this will be the last opportunity for me to address you. The Air Force has bombed the antennas of Radio Portales and Radio Corporación.
My words do not have bitterness but disappointment. May they be a moral punishment for those who have betrayed their oath: soldiers of Chile, titular commanders in chief, Admiral Merino, who has designated himself Commander of the Navy, and Mr. Mendoza, the despicable general who only yesterday pledged his fidelity and loyalty to the Government, and who also has appointed himself Chief of the Carabineros [national police].
Given these facts, the only thing left for me is to say to workers: I'm not going to resign! Placed in a historic transition, I will pay for the loyalty of the people with my life. And I say to them that I am certain that the seeds which we have planted in the good conscience of thousands and thousands of Chileans will not be shriveled forever.
They have force and will be able to dominate us, but social processes can be arrested by neither crime nor force. History is ours, and the people make history.
Workers of my country: I want to thank you for the loyalty that you always had, the confidence that you deposited in a man who was only an interpreter of great yearnings for justice, who gave his word that he would respect the Constitution and the law and did just that. At this definitive moment, the last moment when I can address you, I wish you to take advantage of the lesson: foreign capital, imperialism, together with the reaction, created the climate in which the Armed Forces broke their tradition, the tradition taught by General Schneider and reaffirmed by Commander Araya, victims of the same social sector who today are hoping, with foreign assistance, to re-conquer the power to continue defending their profits and their privileges.
I address you, above all, the modest woman of our land, the countrywoman who believed in us, the mother who knew our concern for children. I address professionals of Chile, patriotic professionals who continued working against the sedition that was supported by professional associations, classist associations that also defended the advantages of capitalist society. I address the youth, those who sang and gave us their joy and their spirit of struggle. I address the man of Chile, the worker, the farmer, the intellectual, those who will be persecuted, because in our country fascism has been already present for many hours -- in terrorist attacks, blowing up the bridges, cutting the railroad tracks, destroying the oil and gas pipelines, in the face of the silence of those who had the obligation to act. They were committed. History will judge them.
Surely Radio Magallanes will be silenced, and the calm metal of my voice will no longer reach you. It does not matter. You will continue hearing it. I will always be next to you. At least my memory will be that of a man of dignity who was loyal to his country.
The people must defend themselves, but they must not sacrifice themselves. The people must not let themselves be destroyed or riddled with bullets, but they cannot be humiliated either.
Workers of my country, I have faith in Chile and its destiny. Other men will overcome this dark and bitter moment when treason seeks to prevail. Go forward knowing that, sooner rather than later, the great avenues will open again and free men will walk through them to construct a better society.
Long live Chile! Long live the people! Long live the workers!
These are my last words, and I am certain that my sacrifice will not be in vain. I am certain that, at the very least, it will be a moral lesson that will punish felony, cowardice, and treason.
Santiago de Chile, 11 September 1973
I know this is far from the worst thing Wikipedia has ever done, but it really got to me, and I feel an organization with its priorities in order would never behave this way. And in a federated system, not only could I use an instance with its priorities in better order, but also other sites would have likely mirrored the content.
Yeah, okay, sure
Late dotcom bubble ass marketing. I don't even get what they do but I see that they've shoe-horned "AI" into it somehow
This kind of success story does not exist outside of the west
This. This is the completely unquestioned propaganda nugget that holds the whole belief system together. Who told you that? Why would you believe that?
Enormous, and economically successful countries like China, just have no immigrants, no refugees, and no social mobility? (not that the US has a ton, there's a lot of unacknowledged luck involved in this story too)
This story can absolutely happen in other countries. China even has a higher income mobility than the US. And if you look at the statistics, immigrants are actually disproportionately likely to be pulled down into the cycle of poverty that exists in the US, there's an alternate universe not so different from our own where this dipshit's parents had the resources to leave Iran, eventually landed in the US, and actually experienced downward mobility not upward, and rather than becoming exploiters themselves, hit a speed bump along the way like a serious injury or foreclosure or god knows what else and instead became destitute low-wage workers, who can't afford to live in (most of anyhow) CA, send their kid to law school to do unpaid internships, etc.
This person really has not considered that they aren't the protagonist of real life and most people's stories don't look like theirs
gotta do it after the primary season is over for absolute minimum democratic engagement to pick his replacement
Obligatory plug for Inventing Reality, from which much of Manufacturing Consent was cribbed (or at least it predated MC by 2 years)
And yes, you do not have to hand it to Al-Qaeda. They are reactionaries. They point out things that liberals conveniently ignore sometimes, especially when they are engaged in anti-colonial struggle, but it's still in service of their right wing views.
he's further down in that thread saying how much better off now iraq and libya are than before they got attacked by the US. And talking down to an iraqi who chimed in to say he's wrong
College students =/= young people
even looking at just 18-24 it's like 1/3 of them and not a representative sample, and grad students are an even tinier group of mostly mid-late 20s
College provides (usually) a built in community and likely even a walkable neighborhood, and many opportunities to meet people that the general working public often lack. Didn't stop apps from becoming popular on campuses, but I feel like it was always destined to be a fad in that context, because the apps suck so much
I've got some news for you
all of life should permanently be inconvenient and dangerous because otherwise the bike-toting commies are going to outlaw going to the less convenient stores that are further away
they thought the reddit wave would be bigger but it turns out redditors like feeling smug more than actually leaving the corporate walled garden. so they aren't thaaat big and a good % of those who did come here are at least vaguely leftist. That plus hexbear=no more unchallenged "ebil seeseepee" type circlejerks
not even just that, capitalists want all nations to be dependent on imported food so it can be used as leverage
probably would have snagged it and just like, hung around a bit and kept an eye out for the owner, were I broke.