https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1lzbkr7/head_mod_of_rtrans_tries_unsuccessfully_to/
Note: TL:DR at the way bottom
Subreddit background
/r/trans is a subreddit for both trans men and trans women to post about topics, their personal transitions or other things related to transgender.
Abbreviation breakdowns
For those not familiar with the transgender community, I’m going to list a few terms you’ll see in the post:
> * ftm - female to male. That is, a person who transitions from a woman to a man
>
> * mtf - male to female. A person who transitions from a man to a woman
>
> * Cisgender - A person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex assigned at birth. Ex: born a woman and lives life as a woman; born a man and lives life as a man
>
> * amab, afab - Assigned male at birth; assigned female at birth
>
> * trans masc - Short for trans masculine. Someone who is assigned female at birth, and whose gender is masculine or they are nonbinary (identifies as neither male or female) and expresses masculine traits
The original “divisive” post
Things kicked off when about a week ago, OP (who I will nickname bro77) posted a long informational post about the difficulties trans masc people encounter to both /r/lgbt and /r/trans.
Sometime within the week, the post on /r/trans got removed, so bro77 made a new post and also asked mods for clarification, but the mods were rude and dismissive.
> Mod comment: Your previous post was removed for talking about how trans men "are talked about and cared about so little that many people don't actually know the shit we go through."
>
> This is divisive to the community.
>
> You even called out the reason the post is divisive when you said "Please do not respond to this post with "Well I think trans men are talked about less because society sees them as confused women" or anything like that."
>
> You knew the post would bring in arguments. Posts that encourage fighting about who or why is oppressed are not allowed.
According to a comment post drama, bro77 said the mod mail messages were these:
> The rude comments from mods I got were the following:
>
> In my messages when I asked why my post was taken down, I was told it was because "sexual assault is not unique to trans men" in response to my post pointing out trans men's disproportionate rates of being sexually assaulted. I was also told that the dismissal of trans men "doesn't happen" and then I had two comments about my post being "oppression olympics" even though I clearly stated multiple times in my post that was not the point, and was very deliberate with my language to ensure I was not putting anybody down while trying to pull trans men up.
A separate comment thread has screenshots of the exact conversation here.
Community reactions explode
After the original post was removed, the second questioning post also gets removed for “bitching”, bro77 gets a temporary ban from the sub, and bro77’s post on /r/lgbt also gets locked for “divisiveness”. The /r/trans mods then started removing new posts about trans men and trans masc people en masse.
Some of the removed posts are here, here, here, here, and here.
A different /r/trans mod makes a new stickied post asking the angry sub to stop posting about removed posts:
> Stop With The Trans Man Post Removal Commentary
>
> We have now removed a dozen posts of people complaining about the one where a mod removed a post espousing how trans men are treated differently in trans circles and by the world. We have replied to the OP, explaining exactly how their post was divisive to the community. The post was also removed by a trans masc mod, so please stop saying it's oppression by the trans fem mods.
>
> We are actively monitoring the sub and removing any posts that are talking about this. These posts are not going to change our stance on the original post. We are not currently banning people for it if they only post once, though usually they would be for causing disturbances. However, those who continue to harass the sub and the mods with this will receive temporary bans. We are also not sending out removal notices for them, because every person posting it knows why it's being removed.
This removal drama spilled over into several different subreddits:
Bro77 gets unbanned from r/trans
After a talk privately with the mods, bro77 is unbanned and able to make a new post about the situation. In short, he accepts the apology from the mod who said he was “bitching” about getting his post removed, among other things. The mods decide to pin this post as well.
The mod who made the pinned post asking users to “stop with the trans man post removal commentary” comments in bro77’s thread here:
> Mod: From the exhausted mod who is really trying to figure out what to do:
>
> When I made my original post, I was unaware of the mod who actually did insult the OP in the comments. I thought they were talking about modmail, which I have personally been trying to manage for the last three hours, and I did not insult the OP in them. OP and I are discussing the situation now, and I would like to apologize to everyone for the inappropriate way one of our mods talked to the community.
>
> I really am not trying to silence anyone's voice. I'm sorry that's how things came across. But if we keep getting flooded with hate for the mods, the people who want to talk about their own stuff outside this issue are going to get drowned out, and that's not fair to the other members of the sub. And even if we reapprove the post, we're still going to get flooded by people who are angry it went down in the first place. I've been trying to figure out how to handle this for the last like three hours, and I don't know what I can actually possibly do to stop this.
>
> So, I guess if you want to rant at me here in the comments about how horrible I am for trying to figure out how to deescalate a situation that has gotten way out of hand, and that I shouldnt feel like crying in a corner right now because I don't know how to handle this, because I'm just a normal person who has had their Saturday afternoon turn into a shit show.... then go for it. If comments are removed on this post, it's because they've been sent to the queue for review, not because I am actively removing them. [downvoted]
“Bitching” mod apology post
After all of this drama and removals, the “bitching” mod makes a (now deleted) post apologizing for her behavior:
> This is the moderator who used the term "bitching." I am sorry.
>
> To be clear, I am not the mod who removed [bro77]'s original post which initiated this whole discussion, but I am the one who said he was "bitching" in the second post that they made to complain about the original removal. I do not believe that the original post was complaining in any way, just the second post where he complained about the removal. To the entire community, especially the trans men here, I am sorry for my choice of words. I had already privately apologize to [bro77], but felt a public apology would go a long way.
>
> I know there is no excuse, but I legitimately did not think about the implications of the use of that term when referring to trans men, and just meant it as a synonym of "complaining." Realizing that leaving the comment in place would not help the situation, I deleted it and the remainder of my comments in that post.
>
> After private discussion with [bro77], I now recognize how harmful that term is to use for a portion of the community that has faced misogyny in their lives, and I will not do so going forward.
>
> All I can ask for at this time is your your forgiveness.
>
> As I am currently on a voluntary break from moderating the subreddit (which has been in effect for a few weeks now), I can't take action on any posts or comments here, nor can I view or respond to Moderator Messages. Please direct any anger about the use of that term here, to me, and not the rest of the team, who I truly believe are doing their best to resolve this situation In the best way possible. I'm not going to comment on the original post removal since I wasn't involved in that decision at all and likely would not have come to the same conclusion.
>
> I absolutely believe that trans men are men and that they are a welcome part of this community, as does the remainder of this moderation team (who isn't entirely trans-fem). This is reflected in our rules which specifically address disparities and should be evidence by the amount of posts that historically exist discussing these issues and the removal of ones by trans-feminine people that try argue that we "have it harder." We absolutely do not.
>
> Thank you for reading all this, and I hope to build back your trust.
Bro77 writes a reply to this, which you can read here.
Apologies not accepted
The community dislikes both of these mods’ statements, and lets others know:
> Coward move to make the sub Restricted. Trans masc people matter, period.
> They’re still deleting posts and banning people from posting
> Im sort of shocked that you didn't know it was wrong to do in the first place, considering that OPs post was about micro aggression, violence, and Trans masc erasure. If you didn't delete the initial post, why did you feel the need to comment on their second post to tell them they were bitching???
> A trans man shouldn’t be chastised for complaining here either. Everyone should be able to complain because there’s a lot of fucking things to complain about while being trans.
Head Mod takes over
The head mod opts to make a post of their own apologizing for the entire situation. They have made bro77’s original post viewable again, and are going to make some rule changes to prevent drama bubbling up like it had. The head mod also asks that all criticism be directed to them instead of the other mods, who were all handpicked by them.
This mod also pins a comment for users to read:
> Head Mod: Hey, sorry I can't respond to everyone. I'll come back when I can tomorrow and respond more. I have had only about 8 hours of sleep in the last 72 hours, which isn't a great excuse, but I can't stay awake any longer. Please feel free to keep commenting and dming me, I'll respond when I can. Please go easy on the mods who are in the comments, they're good people.
In response to a comment about more trans masc moderators being introduced to the team:
> Head Mod: Ironically, in terms of active [mods], our team was 2 trans masc mods, and 4 trans fem, and 2 non-binary peeps.
>
> I think one trans masc mod just left though without telling me directly. I may be a bit salty about that, but that's on me for not being available today. [heavily downvoted]
> No offence, but if your reaction to a trans masc mod leaving in disgust over discovering how badly the mods you hand-picked have treated trans masc users, is to be salty, that's really not a good sign for things going forward.
Bro77’s request to be a moderator
Despite everything, bro77 indicated in edits to his unbanning post he would like to apply to be a mod. However, this hope is short lived, when he shares a reply he received from the mods:
> Editing to add: I am applying to be a moderator for this sub now. I hope something comes of this because I want to see this subreddit move forward in a way where we can all talk about our issues and a space can be made for everyone. Action must be taken.
>
> Second Edit: Here is the mod response to my mod application for this sub. I was hoping there would be more of an apology to come and more discussion about what happened from the mods, so we could be confident of progress being made in the sub. This response does not fill me with hope.
>
> "Your comment on r/ftm 's post 45 minutes ago about this does not give us much confidence in your ability to be a mod on our sub. You said you already unsubbed to trans subs, and you are still looking for another apology from us? You're also looking to be a mod of a sub that actively brigaded us."
>
> Lol. Imagine doubling down this hard instead of trying to move forward and help trans men feel comfortable. Truly a shame. I will not be trying to mod for this community as I believe it is a lost cause.
r/trans mod accuses a r/ftm mod of causing more drama
In bro77’s unbanned thread post, a mod from r/ftm responds to the pinned “exhausted” mod comment, saying the /r/trans mods were messaging only to get /r/ftm onto their side.
Exhausted mod reply:
> Trans Mod: No, actually. The modmail sent to your team about the situation was legitimately asking if the mods of other trans subs thought we were acting out of line, because nobody here was questioning the removal, but the sub was up in arms about it. The mod was legitimately asking for feedback to see if they misinterpreted the post from people who weren't raging at us. You could have replied to the modmail and said, "hey, this is spilling over here, and we think you misunderstood the post and your reasoning behind the removals for these reasons." Instead, you ignored us and made your own post, sharing private moderator information about the contents of the modmail, and essentially blamed our sub for being transphobic. [downvoted]
> Ftm Mod: The modmail you sent did not read like that at all. It honestly did read like you just wanted us on your side and to have us further take action against users posting on our sub.
>
> The contents of the modmail that was shared were honestly something we felt were not acceptable things to say, and we were shocked and disgusted with the blatant disregard for trans men/transmascs. We felt that because things were being deleted and hidden left and right, it was important information to provide.
Post from the trans masc mod who suddenly stepped down
As mentioned by the head mod, one of the trans masc mods stepped down without any notice. This mod did not engage in any of the discourse over the past day, however he made a post in /r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns2 about his leaving:
> By staying on the mod team I would've been just as culpable
>
> Disclaimer: I voluntarily resigned and I wasn't banned
>
> [2 image meme of the red and blue button decision; red button says “Leaving the r/trans mod team and sub at large”, and the blue button says “Staying on the mod team”
>
> second image shows pressing the red button, with text “Me, a (now former) mod of r/trans”]
Some comments from this former mod shed light on the true mod behavior at /r/trans:
> Former Mod: For starters, in June of 2024, there used to be a mod who had her own unrelated Discord server I was in for about 8 months (a different mod from the one that made that comment); who begged for money for the members of her Discord server and never paid them back.
>
> I managed to bring all the to the attention of the mod team using screengrabs of Discord DMs from the people that mod conned out of their money as evidence, and she was removed.
>
> Edit for important information: I was never under any confidentiality or agreements like that.
> Former Mod: To be honest I think that whole situation in June '24 was what started my suspicions of issues going on with how the server was being run. When I was on their dedicated moderator Discord earlier today, they essentially pretended that the mod who made that comment never did anything...
> Former Mod: I couldn't be complicit in such exclusivity, so I pretty much was like "screw y'all" and left. Idc care if I'm called a traitor or shit like that; I felt that stepping down from my mod position and unsubbing was the moral thing to do.
> Former Mod: The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back was they didn't remove the mod who made that comment (y'all know the one)
Head mod removed “bitching” comment mod
If you dig down into the comments of the Head mod post, you will find a short comment about the “bitching” mod:
> Head Mod: nah I already permanently removed her
> Then why are none of you mentioning or talking about it. I read this head mods post twice and there’s no mention of it at all. This could have been done hours ago and you all as a mod team could have been getting the rest you keep making sure to mention.
> Head Mod: honestly because the only reason I'm still awake tight now is that my anxiety is p high and I need to make a proper post tomorrow [downvoted]
After effects of the drama
The Head mod states they have unbanned all users who were banned during the height of the drama, and a few hours later, the /r/trans sub is no longer restricted, which means community posting can begin again, so the first thing posted is a request for new mods who are trans and poc (people of color).
The head mod also writes and pins a comprehensive post addressing all that happened, and where things are heading to next for /r/trans. A notable quote from the post says “The mod thought [bro77’s original post] was created to intentionally sow division.”
Even more community drama
The sub users are unsatisfied with the head mod’s lengthy post, and are quite vocal about it. Unfortunately, posts also seem to be getting removed again, and one mod even decided to quit the team:
> I’m done.
>
> If this sub isn’t going to address the transmisandry, I’m not going to moderate it. The ModTeam needs change. If these concerns are addressed, I may consider rejoining.
Posts from users:
> Assuming they're not one of the two who have already been removed, what's the verdict on the moderator who also moderates a "gay conservative" subreddit?
> I’m sorry but if you see a post that lays out the facts of the bullshit we face as transmascs and your first thought it “omg this is going to sow division”, you have some bigoted opinions on transmascs
> Well, see, after we hire more minorities, we'll tokenize them and use them to shield the bad decisions we make because we don't understand how to make a safe space.
——————
TL:DR After a day of mass post removals, other subs engaging, and mod posts, the offending mod has been removed, the original commenter bro77 had his post viewable again, and the /r/trans sub is open for posting, but some posts are getting deleted again anyway.
A new subreddit called /r/trans4every1 was created as a safe space for all transgender people, since to some /r/trans appears to be unwelcome to trans men and trans mascs.
——————
Reminder not to comment in any of these threads, or message the /r/trans mods or other community moderators!
Edit1: In dramatic fashion, the mod who stated she was quitting is now not quitting the mod team
> An apology
>
> It was spineless of me to say I’d leave until change was made and then change my mind. That’s why I’m making this genuine apology. I’m so so sorry.
>
> I promise not to do anything like this in the future and understand if this post doesn’t do well
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by Teal_is_orange (↑ 773/ ↓ 0)
