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Germany has too many solar panels, and it's pushed energy prices into negative territory (markets.businessinsider.com)

submitted 3 months ago by Xatolos@reddthat.com to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] Nommer@sh.itjust.works 46 points 3 months ago

They could always just close their coal power plants. Idk why they don't.

[-] sqibkw@lemmy.world 55 points 3 months ago

My guess is that in a climate like Germany's, solar isn't consistent enough to provide the steady baseline power that coal plants can.

One of the complexities of power infrastructure is that demand must be met instantaneously and exactly. Coal and solar typically occupy different roles in a grid's power sources. Coal plants are slow to start, but very consistent, so they provide baseline power. Solar is virtually instantaneous, but inconsistent, so it's better suited to handle the daily fluctuations.

So, in a place like Germany, even in abundance, solar can't realistically replace coal until we have a good way of storing power to act as a buffer. Of course, nuclear is a fantastic replacement for coal, but we all know how Germany's politicians feel about it...

[-] yetAnotherUser@feddit.de 21 points 3 months ago

We also know building nuclear takes 20 years and costs more than building thrice the capacity in renewables + Germany has no long-term nuclear storage, only temporary one's a la Simpsons.

[-] Zorcron@lemmy.zip 17 points 3 months ago

Germany had 17 active nuclear plants in 2011 and decommissioned them all by 2023.

[-] Beinofenstrot@feddit.de 2 points 3 months ago

They were already past their expiry date. Germany would face the same shit France is facing with their old reactors.

[-] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 5 points 3 months ago

You are correct that when you build one new plant every 25 years it takes a long time to spool the industry, the skills, the testing and the manufacturing capability up to build new nuclear.

In countries that regularly build new nuclear it takes 5 years, comparable to any other power source. When France when through their mass-conversion to nuclear in the 70s (following the oil crisis), they put 2-3 new nuclear plants into operation every year.

All new western nuclear is in “production hell”. We don’t build them often enough to retain the skill set or for industry to dare invest. So they become massive state-run enterprises.

If we were serious on solving our climate crisis we would build nuclear power plans en masse.

[-] SwingingKoala@discuss.tchncs.de -2 points 3 months ago

We also know building nuclear takes 20 years and costs more than building thrice the capacity in renewables

Nonsense, https://nanonuclearenergy.com/, https://www.nuscalepower.com/, http://smart-nuclear.com/, etc.

[-] Danquebec@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago

Coulnd't we use solar to pump water into reservoirs, and then let the water flow through hydroelectrical dams when we need the electricity?

[-] fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 3 months ago

[yes](> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity)

Taking into account conversion losses and evaporation losses from the exposed water surface, energy recovery of 70–80% or more can be achieved. This technique is currently the most cost-effective means of storing large amounts of electrical energy, but capital costs and the necessity of appropriate geography are critical decision factors in selecting pumped-storage plant sites.

[-] Danquebec@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Oh wow, I had no idea this existed. Awesome!

[-] Sternout@feddit.de 1 points 2 months ago

Wait Are these not common where you are?

[-] Danquebec@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

We have a lot of dams, but I haven't heard that we were pumping water into the reservoirs.

We also don't have, like, fields of solar panels, as far as I know. I think it's too cloudy here. But we have wind turbines, especially in coastal areas.

[-] Nommer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

I guess I meant not all of them and especially not at the same time but that wasn't clear in my first post. I understand that a baseline is needed but if during daytime they're generating excess constantly then shutting down a few wouldn't hurt. Especially since Germany is one of the biggest offenders in the world when it comes to coal. Storage is definitely a concern but in case of surges there's other power from neighboring countries that can help with the demand. Sodium ion batteries are looking like a good possibility.

[-] Asifall@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Because they would have brownouts overnight and when the weather was bad.

[-] Nommer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

Obviously...

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Because as the article says, consumers use more power during non-solar hours.

The Ukraine war has also caused oil and gas prices to rise in Europe, so all alternatives to those need to remain on the table until Russia fucks off.

[-] MicrondeMMMMMMM@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 months ago

because solar panels are not a controllable energy source, solar is great until there's a cloud or it's nighttime, coal on the other hand is a controllable energy source. Since we can't effectively store energy we have to be constantly producing enough for the whole population, it's a really hard job!

[-] jupyter_rain@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 months ago

Not enough preparation for saving energy overnight.

[-] Pacmanlives@lemmy.world -5 points 3 months ago

Germany it’s more the Russian gas they get. Shit hit the fan for them when they invaded Ukraine. Germany was like fuuuuuuuu

this post was submitted on 24 May 2024

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