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submitted 5 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/mensliberation@lemmy.ca
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[-] YungOnions@sh.itjust.works 33 points 5 months ago

I write in the book that there's a weird combination of entitlement and inadequacy. You're entitled as your birthright as a male to women's bodies, you're entitled to power, you're entitled to glory, you're entitled to this heroic position. But you're also never going to meet it, so you're always going to feel shame and inadequacy. That combination makes is like a perfect storm for this resentment and emasculation.

This is interesting, Ive never thought of it that way. Tell men they have a right to a particular way of life, then make it next to impossible to achieve and finally feed off the resentment that perceived failure breeds.

[-] pmk 47 points 5 months ago

I have actually never felt entitled to these things. What I mostly feel is a responsibility. If something breaks I'm supposed to know how to fix it. Because of this I have become good at fixing things. If we are lost I'm supposed to find where we are, so I study maps before I go somewhere new. If a decision needs to be made, again, eyes turn to me, so I need to know a little about everything, and never look indecisive. If an unexpected expense comes up, I need to have money saved away for this purpose. The punishment for failing things like this is not disapproval from other men or feeling less masculine. The punishment is that I'm viewed as less by my girlfriend. This is how I think things go hand in hand. By helping women get empowered, we can share responsibilities. By women helping us feel valued for ourselves, worthy of love, desired as we are, we don't need to constantly fear being seen as less... then, I don't know. Maybe it would also lead to men feeling safer to be better human beings. The impossible dilemma now, for me, is that I'm still expected to be successful in the traditionally masculine things, while at the same time not being successful in the traditionally masculine things. No way to win.

[-] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Wow the only sane comment I found in this thread so far.

The issue isn’t masculinity or how it can be toxic (to even suggest it is insulting imo).

The issue is:

Society does not value men!!!

That’s it, it’s not complicated at all. It’s not this weird problem with masculinity.

Society does not value men inherently like women (as in for just existing), it values the benefit they can provide.

This has been the case in all of human history. The difference now is that we no longer prepare most/all men to be able to provide the most value they can.

I always thought the solution was to value men inherently too. But that means saying a “you go bro” to incels and other “low value” men.

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this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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