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Kamala Harris was asked her toughest questions on Gaza yet
(www.motherjones.com)
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this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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I’m still wondering when Americans will finally wake up and realise how absolutely fucked their entire system is. You are being forced to pick between a genocidal bastard or fascist wannabe-dictator for the highest seat of government.
You guys really need to get together and just dismantle the entire thing. It was a good try but it’s fucked. Start again.
…we do understand. But solving it isn’t exactly easy. Why don’t we just dismantle a world superpower with the biggest military in the world and a massive landmass and a spread out populace? Oh, why didn’t we think of that.
If people actually accepted the reality of the situation, truly, in their hearts, they wouldn’t find all of these excuses for it. Look at the replies, literally the first one is just “well, trump is worse, so we have to support Kamala”. You, as an individual, understand it when you think logically, but as a collective, the American people aren’t ready to admit that their elections are completely rigged.
Hold up - you don't have a solution, but you'll criticise people for doing what they can to keep the fascists out of power?
I agree with what you're saying broadly, but if you're going to wax ideological while you let the fascists win, you can fuck all the way off.
I haven’t really criticised anyone for voting for Harris, I absolutely agree that given the situation that you’re in, it’s the right thing to do, no doubt.
My point is that there are so many people who don’t accept that Kamala Harris is a fucking terrible person and in a real democracy she wouldn’t have a chance of getting elected.
You’re in this horrible position where in order to do the right thing you’re forced into supporting a genocide. You have to accept that is what you’re doing, do it anyways, and then do everything you can to bring the system down to stop it from ever happening again.
you’re completely ignoring that a large portion of our populace are racist rednecks who fanatically support a guy like trump. it’s not just a systemic issue, we are a highly polarized nation and overthrowing the government won’t change that, it’ll only make it worse.
"Trump is worse" sounds like a false dichotomy, but it isn't. First past the post voting mathematically forces a two party system given enough election cycles.
This video shows how: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
So until Americans can have a vote that's a list instead of a checkmark, the choices really are genocide and super genocide. It's horrific and so much of it stems from something so innocent.
Gotta tell you, that wannabe dictator would be even more genocidal. The dude was so fanatically pro-Israel in the debate that he accused Harris of being the cause of its destruction within two years if she is elected. He has not called for any sort of cease-fire. He has not criticized arms shipments to Israel and never called for them to be paused.
Stop shifting the blame, currently trump is not in power. So the people in power has all the blame they should get right now. Trump is just more honest but in reality both will do their best to defend israel
Harris is not in power either. She does not set or implement policy. You do know what the powers of the Vice President are, yes?
Are you telling me thst a vice president which one of it's function is to be advisor to the president shouldn't have part of the responsability?
Not unless you know what she's advised him of, no. Or are you under the impression that he has to do what people who advise him say?
If the government support a genocidal terrorist state then anybody in the government has the responsibility to resign
Okay, well that's not going to happen. So the choice is going to be Trump or Harris and to suggest that we can't know where Trump stands on Israel compared to Harris is either dishonest or highly ignorant.
The fact is that both of them are on the wrong side of this genocide, so they have to be chosen by other criteria. "Just don't vote for either of them" is not an answer. That's also not going to happen for most voters.
Actions don't reflect what biden and his administration says they just more hypocritical about palestine. I don't believe in the two lesser of evil when it comes to palestine. Major changes don't happen overnight, and things don't change when people say it's futile and will never happen. With a similar mentality of we shouldn't vote for a third option, countries like india wouldn't get rid of british after 200 years and 100 millions dead indian
How about when it comes to literally every other thing in this election? Like persecution of queer people or deportation of migrants or just whether or not someone is going to be a dictator?
Literally none of that matters? Fuck it? Let the queer people and Latinos get marched into camps because there's no difference between them on Israel?
I specifically talked about gaza, you guys always like to deviate
And I'm specifically saying their positions on Gaza are not really relevant to the election since they're both on Israel's side. You don't seem to agree, so explain to me which one has the position I should favor on the matter.
The party with people best interest which i think it's neither democrats or republicans and again the thread was about gaza so i don't understand how it's relevent to the topic and i don't understand why most try to just deviate from harris critisism.
The thread was about Gaza in relation to the election. See the "Kamala Harris" part.
And the fact is that the winner in November will either be a Democrat or a Republican. Voting for anyone else is absolutely useless. You might as well not vote.
I plan to vote, and not for the guy who has a good chance of putting my queer daughter in a concentration camp.
That's not one of the functions of the vice president actually.
blame is irrelevant. what is relevant is choosing who you think will handle it best (or less bad) in the next 4 years. if you think that’s trump, you’re delusional. if you think trump would have handled the last 11 months better, you’re delusional.
...seriously?
Right, but you must realise if I asked you to choose between getting your hand amputated or your arm amputated, for no reason, the correct answer isn’t your hand, it’s to refuse to allow unnecessary amputations to continue.
And how would you propose we do such a thing? Because if "just overthrow the government" was that easy, Donald Trump would be president right now.
Step one is admitting there’s a problem.
Lots of people admit there's a problem. That doesn't answer my question.
If you don’t admit that there’s a problem, then answering your question would be a waste of time, because you would, most likely, just be looking for something to argue with me about, rather than considering my points in good faith.
If you’re happy to start the conversation from a place where you admit that, yes, the US political system is so rigged that it is impossible to meaningfully reform, then I’m happy to answer your question.
Sure, there's a problem. Now please answer my question.
Easier said than done:
I think many people don’t realize they focus too much on short-term issues, which are actually symptoms of deeper systemic problems. For instance, the two-party system in the US stems from election campaigns not being publicly funded and also the "winner-takes-all" electoral system instead of proportional representation. I would bet you already know about these issues but still I don't see them being discussed in media and that's where every big change must begin. And that's also what I think should answer your question. Instead of spreading awareness of the current problems at hand, you should focus on the deep issues and instead spread awareness of them. That's my opinion at least.
Nothing I do will have any effect on what the corporate-run media reports on and it's naive to think any of us who aren't corporate executives or their political cronies have that power.
The next thing you have to do is get people talking about it and admitting that there is a problem, build connections with them, and help protect and inoculate people against far-right radicalisation. This is best done in your local community, it doesn’t really work very well online, unfortunately. Build a people-centred movement based on solidarity, mutual aid/support, and collaboration. Work on building alternative structures such as co-operatives, fully mutual groups/societies, and helping people to organise their workplaces and form or join unions.
It’s all about building solidarity, connections, helping people break free of the mind prison they were born into, and making sure that they don’t get radicalised by the far-right in the process, because their messaging is designed to appeal to people who realise how fucked our system is and promises easy “solutions”, rather than the hard work it takes to actually solve the problem.
Once enough people are actively aware of the problem and working to build that solidarity, we can start actually something about it. By that point, you should really be working together to solve the problems which affect your community directly.
Hope this helps, though I’m sure none of it really comes as a surprise!
That's a long-winded way of saying you don't actually have an answer for how to, as you put it, "refuse to allow unnecessary amputations to continue." You could have saved yourself a lot of time.
Wow, my prediction came true. Truly, I am a fortune teller.
Immediately after you told that so-called fortune:
So why are you now lying and claiming I didn't admit there's a problem? It's a pretty silly lie.
Truly, I’m sorry for letting you down, I really hope you come around eventually. Remember, solidarity is the key. Together we can change the world.
You didn't let me down, because I knew you didn't actually have an answer about how to actually achieve anything.
If "solidarity" and "awareness" were all it took to solve problems, climate change wouldn't be getting worse.
You know what awareness and solidarity already resulted in? January 6th. You know what was a failure? January 6th.
I let you down by failing to convince you, though I’m sure you don’t see it that way.
Solidarity, awareness and collaboration are the prerequisite conditions for building a working class movement capable of achieving widespread change. That isn’t where the process ends, obviously, action needs to be taken once that movement exists.
I’m not sure what your point is about January 6th.
You failed to convince me by not telling me what the next step would be.
Lots of large-scale solidarity movements in history have been built and failed. Sometimes disastrously so. You do not have the step after that, which is essential.
My point about January 6th is that it was a large-scale solidarity movement that tried to effect major change in terms of how presidents become presidents and failed. You seem to think everyone getting together and singing kumbaya would achieve for the left what they were unable to do when they actively tried.
I have a proposal for what I would suggest our next step should be once we get to that position, and I’d be happy to share it with someone who is genuinely interested. But you have to realise and accept that it goes against my ideology for me to act as if I have all of the answers. My entire belief system is that we can work together to find a solution, collectively, for what we should do next. If I assume I know everything and that we should all just do what I say, I would be no better than those I oppose.
I’m not going to defend Jan 6 for obvious reasons. There are plenty of left-wing solidarity movements we could talk about instead - Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street, Defund the Police, the CHAZ. I would agree that none of those projects really achieved their ultimate goals, but they did somewhat progress them.
Things fail until they succeed. I’m sure you wouldn't have scolded the Wright brothers for continuing to try to build a flying machine despite prior failures.
What a bullshit cop-out. I have asked you multiple times what the next step is and you're now claiming I'm not interested?
That's two lies you've told about me now. That is coming close to trolling.
You aren’t acting in good faith, and you admitted as such:
Okay, you're trolling. Time for you to take a break.
This you?
That's going to take years, if not decades. Your amputation is in less than two months.
“no reason”? if the alternative to a hand or arm amputation is death, yeah, i’m gonna choose a hand amputation.
that’s what our alternative is in your analogy. remember the US is highly polarized right now, so one (sane) group taking over the US govt is likely impossible, and even if successful would end up in a massive civil war. that would not only destroy life in the US for the foreseeable future, but the entire global economy and geopolitical equilibrium.
There are certainly criticisms to be made but "dismantling the entire thing" is not the way.