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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by ashinadash@hexbear.net to c/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns@hexbear.net

Look right, I like a lot of things about the foundational 2007 text Whipping Girl by Julia Serano. But if you've ever been told to read this book without any qualifiers, I'd like to apologise on behalf of the trans community.

lenin-tea

Obviously the concepts of traditional and oppositional sexism, the idea of transmisogyny, Serano's analysis of media depictions of trans women, and more are all superb and well worthy of praise. However, Serano is a land of contrasts, as AcidSmiley so concisely put it. She's read both Leslie Feinberg and Kate Bornstein's works, and writes this extremely salient quote:

We must also stop pretending that there are essential differences between women and men. This begins with the acknowledgement that there are exceptions to every gender rule and stereotype, and this simply stated fact disproves all gender theories that purport that female and male are mutually exclusive categories.

Despite all that, Serano has a perspective that's utterly mired in exorsexist* binary-only assumptions, with language to match. On own, describing someone taking estrogen as "hormonally female" or her body prior to hormone replacement therapy as "physically male" would be unpleasantly cisnormative, but just that. I respect fully that the intent of this book is to analyse the ins and outs of being trans in the gender binary, and so the text is focused in that direction. When Serano writes goofy shit like "mtf spectrum" though, you wonder if she wouldn't be better served by thinking a little outside of the two-genders box.

She doesn't want to, though; Julia Serano circa 2007 (the text has not been meaningfully updated to my knowledge) is a brave warrior going against the grain of non binary domination :citation to defend our poor, repressed binary genders. She's taking down those woke non-binary moralists from their ivory towers:

There are many different (but often overlapping) forms of gender entitlement and gender anxiety. For example, one of the most frequently discussed forms of gender entitlement is heterosexism, the belief that heterosexuality is the only "natural," legitimate, or morally acceptable form of sexual desire. Heterosexist gender entitlement ean lead to homophobia, which is an expression of gender anxiety directed against those people who engage in same-sex relationships. Similarly, the gender-entitled belief that all women are (or should be) feminine and men masculine-which some have called cisgenderism-gives rise to transphobia, a gender anxiety that is directed against people who fall outside of those norms. While homophobia and transphobia have both received mainstream attention, thinking in terms of gender entitlement and gender anxiety also allows us to consider less well- known (but just as disparaging) forms of gender and sexual discrimination. For example, many gays and lesbians who believe that all people are "naturally" either homosexual or heterosexual often express biphobia, a gender anxiety directed toward bisexual people because they challenge the presumption that people can only be attracted to one sex or the other. I have also met some people in the transgender community who feel that identifying outside of the male/female binary is superior to, or more enlightened than, identifying within it. Such people often express gender anxiety (binary- phobia?) at people who identify strongly as either female or male.

I would be laughing if I weren't actually really mad about this classic, foundational transfeminist text featuring tons of brainworms about anyone outside the binary. It's a punchline, the phrase "binary-phobia" is perfect to sit right next to "heterophobia" or "cisphobia". It's right up there alongside white westerners claiming to be victims of racism when someone calls them a cracker, even. It should be plainly self-evident how ridiculous a claim this is. I want to ask Serano circa 2007 to tell me which genders have legal recognition - binary or non-binary ones?

It is truly incredible that a woman can write so sharply about the cultural/societal hedgemony of cis gender and heterosexuality, about how the concept of anything being inherently gendered is antithetical to feminism, and then turn around and write a deeply unserious aside about how non-binary people are apparently smug moralists commiting discrimination against people of binary gender due to the same gender anxiety**--in itself a smart concept about how queer people disrupt assumed gender/sexual normality--that drives cis people to be transphobes!! I am for real left somewhat speechless.

I don't think Whipping Girl is a book nobody should read, obviously. But I scoured the bearsite to see if anyone had dome criticism of or even qualified their recommendation of Whipping Girl, and I found nothing. Part of me wonders if anyone has made a concerted criticism of this book before, but surely someone has before me. I yap exclusively for your benefit! I wonder if Sexed Up or Excluded are better, but frankly I'm just disappointed and angry. Truly a joke.

--

*Exorsexist, I learned today, is discrimination against people outside the gender binary!

**Serano describes gender anxiety as "the act of becoming irrationally upset or being made uncomfortable by the existence of those people who challenge or bring into question one's gender entitlement." In turn, she describes gender entitlement being "an arrogant conviction that one's own beliefs, perceptions, and assumptions regarding gender and sexuality are more valid than those of other people". She is more or less insinuating that non-binary people are befuddled supremacists who cannot stand... adherence to the gender binary. Cool.

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[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

have myself met people who genuinely believed that being non-binary was somehow superior to or more enlightened than having a binary gender.

~~Can I ask, sincerely and genuinely, why you care?~~ Sorry I can see now. So more pointedly, why Serano was so very miffed about just such an encounter that she felt it right to enshrine her being mad in a book? She doesn't seem to be in your position.

largely, in my experience, among TME non-binary people.

Wowee, didn't take long for this to come out...

internalized the idea that 'binary trans women' (and it was always trans women, nobody ever directed this shit at trans men in my experience) were somehow 'reinforcing the binary' and were ultimately obstacles to the cause of 'gender abolition'.

I'm sorry you had that experience. Anyone who has used non-binary identities in this way is a reactionary hiding behind Gender Accelerationist language as a fig leaf. Neither the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto nor the 2016 revision of Gender Outlaw support this viewpoint. See also, the "you can still be a baker" passage of the Gender Accelerationst Manifesto.

In actuality I would say that this stuff is just a manifestation of transmisogyny,

Right, I agree. It sounds unsurprisingly like reductive so-called "gender abolitionist" terfs who want to abolish gender by reducing it to assigned sex. One wonders if these people are wreckers, or indeed why "TME people" are being singled out for it.

[-] 389aaa@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

I would say that the reason I care is fairly simple? The existence of this current of thought and it's advocacy by the individuals I mentioned did me significant psychological harm. It is only natural that I would care given that is the case.

And yes the similarity to TERF ideology is obvious, and I am aware that the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto does not advocate for this - I don't think the people in question were wreckers however, they had quite open public histories of having been trans for years. And I am not trying to 'single out' TME people - I am genuinely just describing what I saw in my experience using the most precise terms available to me, given I characterize the current of thought we are discussing as being a manifestation of transmisogyny, I thought it would be relevant to mention in this instance, that is all.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

Yes, I edited that line in my reply, mistake on my part.

given I characterize the current of thought we are discussing as being a manifestation of transmisogyny, I thought it would be relevant to mention in this instance, that is all.

Terfs are also "transmisogyny exempt" strictly speaking. I tend to agree with a post I saw earlier today on the subject:

Quote

Honestly, (trans)misogynistic transmascs are a pain in the ass, but in the end they're just incel ideologues or liberal chauvinists like any other masc person with problematic views, and the reason is largely the same, they latch onto male privilege to lord it over women. As people navigating a masc-aligned gender role, they intuitively get how to center yourself in conversations, how to silence women and how to be a petty, power-grabbing piece of shit in general, because our society provides ample role models, material and ideological incentives and culturally ingrained leeway for that. It has to to maintain patriarchal property and power relations. Trans men are men and sometimes, some of them are men in the worst ways possible, it comes with the territory when you live in a society that enables male violence in all kinds of ways.

The main difference is that they are people i run into in supposed safer spaces, but it never sat well with me to give them their own trans-specific label, i honestly don't think these dinguses deserve it. They're just misogynist swine like all the other misogynist swine. And i wouldn't say that all transmasculine people are united by a shared lived experience of not experiencing what i go through, trans experiences are a bit too diverse for that. I get a feeling that there's a neo-binarist essentialism to the TME and TMA labels, and i do not use them when calling out (trans)misogyny. I do that a lot, i had to do that with somebody in a trans space just yesterday, but i did not need to call dem TME for that. If i needed an expression for that person, i would go with transmisogynist, joyless pile of spite and insecurity, that seems more fitting than TME.

[-] 389aaa@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

I simply disagree on that matter, then. I find TMA/TME to be very useful terms, especially when one is talking about structural transmisogyny within the trans community itself. Indeed, I find that the TMA/TME terminology's very existence has been helpful in causing a lot more discussion about intracommunity transmisogyny, which is an issue that in the past in my experience has not been discussed at all.

In this case, I used it pretty much because I find it more concise than what the post you are quoting suggests.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

They aren't bad terms in concept, the concept of transmisogyny as Serano lays it out is pretty cool. I've seen the terms used as nouns too many times, though.

What makes misogyny from a trans man different from misogyny from a cis man or woman? (Aside that our comrades should be doing better, which is universal)

[-] 389aaa@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago

It's not in any way fundamentally different - that is why TME as a term includes not just trans men, but also cis men and cis women, that is part of the point of the term.

The only manner in which it is different is that transmisogynist (or just str8 up misogynist, although this seems somewhat less common in my experience) trans men are afforded something of a shield from criticism by way of their transness. They can assert that trans women and trans men are functionally the 'same', that they are equally victimized in all contexts, and use that to dismiss any accusations of transmisogyny they may face because of their behavior as 'infighting' - pointing to the shared enemy of the cisheteropatriarchy as a way of deflecting their own problems.

This is most effective when it comes to more subtle forms of transmisogyny that may be somewhat unconscious - tendencies to talk over trans women, a quickness to cancel and ostracize them, an expectation that trans women ought to not be too 'forceful', even perhaps the common retort to trans women's complaints of intracommunity transmisogyny I have seen of 'why are we infighting we should be kissing and making out instead', shit like that.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

I have NEVER seen "TME" used for anybody cis, as you denoted it's most useful for intercommunity things right?

are afforded something of a shield from criticism by way of their transness

You can tell, because of how vicious anti-TME "discourse" has been online... and sure trans men just use their identity and trans unity as a shield to hide their misogyny behind...

citations-needed

I mean again I can't discount this, particularly here because I am not wherever you've presumably seen this, but my point about singling out transmasc comrades was basically dead accurate.

[-] 389aaa@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

I am not singling out 'transmasc comrades', merely acknowledging that there are transmascs within the trans community who take advantage of their trans status and conditional male privilege to avoid suffering consequences for transmisogynistic behavior is not singling out anyone. I use TME to refer to cis people all the time, and so does everyone else who I have seen regularly use the term.

I think you and I have had extremely different experiences and I don't think either of us is going to benefit from continuing this conversation. I apologize, I recognize this may come off as a bit cowardly, but I don't think I'm realistically going to convince you of anything, nor do I think you are realistically going to convince me of anything.

It seems like your mind on this subject is pretty much already made up, as is mine.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago

I think so, mostly because what you're saying is 1:1 what Imogen Binnie wrote in her dumb novel descended from this book, and also because you assert that like, non-binary supremacists are a real problem (but among TME people!!!) that should be written about. I do not consider seriously anybody who does not have a problem with the quoted passage.

[-] 389aaa@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago

Oh, and I guess to answer your edit - I have no idea why Serano was so miffed about that. I am not her, and cannot say, although it is obvious that she has some degree of exorsexist brainworms regardless of what her experiences may or may not have been.

this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
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