Yeah i wish I could confidently tell you no you are wrong. Which is why we cant place hopes in DNC. This is not about dems winning. Its about gop losing. Once they are out. Let them dnc get their what they deserve.

[–] BalderSion@real.lemmy.fan 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

From the DNC's perspective, going left lost against Nixon of all people, during a deeply unpopular war. Going left was crushed by Regan. Both Bush presidents won by attacking centrist candidates from the right. Clinton ran very centrist campaigns and won. Obama was at best more practical than ideological. Carter and Biden picked up the pieces of disasters, but that didn't translate in to long term gains, and neither of them got credit for what wins they delivered the left.

I agree the DNC should go left, but I understand it's hard to make the case based on the last 60 years of experience.

[–] superniceperson@sh.itjust.works 18 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Anyone basing strategy on the last sixty years instead of the last four is too stupid to be taken seriously. Hence the US' reputation as he dumbest nation.

[–] BalderSion@real.lemmy.fan 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'd reply that anyone can justify any conclusion if they're allowed to pick and choose the evidence under consideration. We should aim to produce a political theory that accounts for decades of history and change.

[–] superniceperson@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

Sure... But that political theory is still explicitly illegal in the US and can get you imprisoned if you manage to get elected. Barring the obvious, we can't base our political theory on entirely different material conditions experienced by entirely different people. The number of voters that were alive 60 years ago is miniscule, and the number of voters that voted 60 years ago is going to be less than 1% in the next election.

Even supposing those people were physically still alive their material conditions have changed so dramatically they aren't the same voters.

By ignoring the change of conditions and change of voters mentality, you set yourself up for 'surprise' failures, like clinton in 2016, which all leftists knew clinton would lose.

If you just look at the last four years and the material conditions people face, you're far less likely to overvalue old elections that have nothing whatsoever in common with modern elections.

[–] peregrin5@lemm.ee -1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

https://imgur.com/a/BOzdYvP

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 1 points 6 days ago

I mean they still not right. Just diet version. To use cars as analogy, Its like hybrid car is better but than gas but what we want is EV running on renewables. Meanwhile people getting most inefficient gas machine from mad max out of spite.