Europe
Europe community on dbzer0. Intended to be a place to discuss European news, politics, or just general topics from a European perspective. Since this is on dbzer0 expect the community to lean more leftist-anarchist but a wide range of views are accepted here (within reason).
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Ukraine's 2014 coup d'etat brought US-backed fascists into power, which fractured the country into a civil war. The oblasts in the east and south sought independence in order to escape the ensuing ethnic persecution, but in response, fascist paramilitaries invaded the donbass and escalated it to violent ethnic cleansing. Eight years of attempted ceasefires were broken by the West^[https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/02/10/ukraine-zelensky-minsk-peace-russia/] before Russia finally intervened.
"8 Years Before" Donbass Documentary
You understand the chronology.
BTW, even Western-based polling consistently showed the clear majority of Crimeans supported the referendum.
The war in the Donbass was also discrete from Crimea (where there was never armed conflict).
Let's be honest, they were hardly going to leave their nuclear submarine bases in the hands of a hostile government, were they...
Because they weren't based in a country trying to join NATO during those 30 years. Until the maiden coup they were very close.
Imagine if China managed to orchestrate a coup in Scotland. Do you expect the British wouldn't attempt to secure their nuclear submarine bases on the coast near Glasgow?
Ukraine was independent before it was couped in 2014 by the US and pushed to fight against Russia, intentionally breaking agreements with Russia and fomenting war precisely so it could be carved up by the US and the EU and turned into a neo-colony. If my country was being invaded by the country my leadership was instigating a war with for years, agreeing to treaties and then intentionally breaking them, multiple times in the decade prior to the invasion, while said leadership is blatantly profiting off of it, I would certainly blame my own government for inciting such a situation, and plenty of Ukrainians do.
Comparing Vietnam to Ukraine is such a fucking cracker take that it must hurt your arm. Vietnam was colonized and brutalized by France and then invaded by the US, two nations which are thousands of miles away and otherwise had no base of support in the region. They were fighting an actual people's war of liberation against a force who had literally taken over more or less the entire nation, enslaving it for a century. Ukraine didn't even exist until the fall of the Soviet Union and has been a corrupt oligarchy since. Liberals are so clueless yet so confident in showing how they refuse to learn a single thing.
Yeah based on your posting I'm not surprised you know Maidan participants and parrot their talking points. You're describing the affects of western influence, and a common one at that, dividing a region into camps and luring one to work for the colonial powers against the regional interests. The imperialists empower some groups against others, and in this case they empowered literal white supremacists with the promise that they would become true blue europeans if they only sacrifice their neighbors, and themselves. To argue that a slavic nation is doing the right thing by getting pulled into a feud with it's neighbors in order to join forces with the imperialist, colonial camp is again the most cracker take you can possibly have on the region.
The only people who wanted to be free from the the USSR were literal banderite fascists who were tired of having to hide their love of pogroms. The quality of life in Ukraine and all of the former Soviet Union plummeted and has never recovered. The best comparison of the Ukrainian leadership post 2014 in the Vietnam context is to the comprador catholic french speaking Vietnamese who hoped to exploit their own relatives to live it up with genocidal fascists and colonizers
https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx
The majority of Ukrainians want a swift, negotiated end to this war. The data typically disagrees with cracker sentiments but the crackers always act like their position is correct. This is the crux of crackerdom.
The Ukrainians who you are prioritizing are not only a minority of Ukrainians but they are literally neo nazis