307
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 92 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Imagine a conman rips you off a dozen times. It's always the same scheme, too. The same conman comes to you again with the same scheme and says "but this is a legitimate business proposition!"

Even if you do your due diligence (which you did all those other times, right?) and it looks above board, you have to realize that trusting him yet again makes you a fucking rube.

[-] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 31 points 11 months ago

Charlie will definitely kick the football this time.

[-] kameecoding@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

what the fuck are you on about? Russia invaded Ukraine

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 62 points 11 months ago

You're right! This time the conman is totally telling the truth!

[-] kameecoding@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

are you serious? do you live in fantasy land?

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 52 points 11 months ago

It's a simple question:

Someone lies to you a dozen times in the same way. Then they come up to you again with the same story and say they're telling the truth. No matter what you think the merits of their story are this time around, does it make sense to believe them?

[-] kameecoding@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

what does that have anything to do with the Ukraine war?

Russia did invade Ukraine, twice, this is not some fucking made up weapons in Iraq scenario.

[-] super_mario_69@hexbear.net 23 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

this is not some fucking made up weapons in Iraq scenario.

Are you absolutely sure about that? Would you have been against the Iraq war before it happened as well?

Look, I get it. I was in your shoes once. Ten years ago I would have figured that this a clear cut good vs. evil scenario with good guys fighting bad guys. One side is Good because they uphold Democracy, Freedom, Human Rights etc. and the other side is Bad because they are against that. There we go, fully summarized, easy to digest and wrap your head around. This kind of world view is rather easy to hold, because you don't ever really have to think about why things happen. Things just kind of happen because the bad guys did something bad, because they are evil. They have red light sabers, they're voldemort, they use forbidden magic. China is bad because Xi and his party are evil. Same with Putin.

But what exactly do we mean when we say "democracy, freedom, and human rights"? If you look past all the buzzwords they are rather vague, utopian concepts that very few, if any, countries can honestly say they uphold. Take my own country, Finland, for example. Widely considered a democratic and free country with a solid human rights record. But is it, really? I wouldn't say our treatment of the Sami was particularly considerate of their human rights. Spousal abuse and alcoholism are more or less our national pastime, and let's not even mention the suicide rates. Year after year more and more of public utilities get privatized and sold of to the highest bidder, to line the pockets of some fat cat executive, because of "the economy". We try, successfully too, to uphold the facade of being a happy and progressive country, but man, things could be a lot better. But hey, at least we get to vote every few years, which might make us feel a little better but ultimately not really change anything. But aside from that, how free are we really when everything costs money and keeps getting more expensive? How does the threat of starvation and homelessness (yes, it's a thing here too) unless you sacrifice most of your waking time to working comply with basic human rights? I would say it doesn't. The "national debt" or whatever the hell the economists blame don't mean a single fucking thing to me, the ordinary citizen. The national debt could be 0 tomorrow, and my life would not improve in the slightest. My observation of the material reality I exist in is that shit is fucked. I base this opinion on the world around me, the things I see and hear, and the people I talk to. Material things and observations, as opposed to statistics and news articles and feelgood stories and buzzwords. A Chinese or Ugandan or American citizen will hold opinions based on their observations, and arrive at a different conclusion. Putin and his lackeys, too, looked at the material reality and arrived at the conclusion that Russia must invade. Simply "being evil" is not a material, objective, quantifiable thing. NATO encroaching on the border of Russia, however, is a very material threat to the Russians, whether we think it's good or bad or justified or not. A threat to their democracy, freedom, and human rights, or whatever buzzwords they use there, you might say.

Anyway it's really fucking hard to deal with questioning your entire world view. I would know, because I had to go through it, and I really, really, REALLY wanted to stay in the comfy warm hot tub of my previous ideology where everything was easy to explain. But I couldn't, because once I started asking "why?", the ideology eventually didn't hold up any more. Try it. "Yes, but why?" "Because X Y Z." "Okay, but why? Why X? Where did it come from?". Go on, ask.

You might not bother to read all this, but that's fine. I'm kind of posting it for myself anyway.

[-] Ideology@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

This comment needs to be pinned somewhere.

[-] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

Western "freedom" summed up in a single emoji: epstein

[-] charly4994@hexbear.net 44 points 11 months ago

The point 420blazeit69 is making is that for decades the US has been waging wars either proxy or direct and will point to how necessary it is for US intervention in the situation. In Afghanistan it was the first Al Qaeda then Taliban, in Iraq it was Saddam Hussein's WMDs. Al-Qaeda was originally funded by the CIA to fuck with the Soviets who were in Afghanistan. Saddam Hussein was part of a US backed assassination plot to kill the leader of Iraq in 1959 and only because of that failed assassination did the Ba'ath party really rise to prominence. The US makes decisions in its own self interest and damn the consequences, but it'll also use its own consequences as further justification for continued intervention.

In this instance 420blazeit69 is referring to how NATO is an anti-soviet turned anti-russia alliance. Somehow Russia's borders seem to be right up against a bunch of US military bases. The continued expansion of NATO further east into Europe is threatening to Russia. The US has done regime change in Ukraine, the US is right on Russia's doorstep and people are shocked to see Russia react. The US damn near ended the world with the Cuban Missile Crisis. This war could have been avoided if US and NATO had just kept to themselves and in the end the people hurt by this are the Ukrainian working class being thrown into a meat grinder as western capitalists converge to further divvy up what's left.

[-] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 34 points 11 months ago

~~Cuban~~ Turkish Missile Crisis

It started when America put nukes right next to russia, and it only 'became an incident' when the USSR did the same

[-] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 17 points 11 months ago

Wonderful response, thanks for that.

[-] kameecoding@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

lmao, are you serious?

you are justifying the genocide of Ukrainian people by Russians as "well they didn't like NATO being close what where they supposed to do?"

[-] charly4994@hexbear.net 18 points 11 months ago

Hey lib, maybe you should get those fucking brain worms looked at because your brain has to be fucking Swiss cheese at this point.

You won’t listen to people and frankly any advice for you to try to educate yourself will fall on deaf ears. Any further discussion is as worthless as your ideology.

[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 16 points 11 months ago

Is there a single war in history that you wouldn't consider a "genocide"?

[-] Rod_Blagojevic@hexbear.net 32 points 11 months ago
[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 22 points 11 months ago

michael-laugh this totally got me! It is the question libs never seem to really think or care about. Or just answer with some shit about the evil, inscrutable asiatics

[-] Rod_Blagojevic@hexbear.net 15 points 11 months ago

Narrator voice: No, he hadn't wondered why.

[-] kameecoding@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

because of the natural resources in Ukraine? and because Putin is a fascist? not really hard

[-] UmbraVivi@hexbear.net 18 points 11 months ago

Duh, Putin invaded Ukraine because he's evil. My understanding of politics is based on cartoons and Marvel movies.

this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
307 points (99.4% liked)

chapotraphouse

13321 readers
1158 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank

Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here

Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS