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this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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And voting is part of that. A big and important part. Tankies leaving that out shows they are not serious about material change.
Libs focusing on voting as the sole method of change or completely inflating it's importance are a large part of the reason there isn't a strong left-wing in the US.
And I have said multiple times, to you even, that its just one front in what we need to be doing. And an important front in the [class] war. Tankies just aren't serious about fighting.
I think our disagreement here is just how important electoralism is for us.
I think electoralism has practically delivered us into the jaws of fascism and has done nothing but delay the inevitable.
You think for some reason that electoralism Will somehow save us and bring about harm reduction.
I am literally quoting arguments from Rosa Luxembourg, Lenin, Engels, and Marx which all focused quite heavily on how to affect change in the United States and in general and all of them came to the conclusion that spending a lot of time with electoralism is a waste of time. You will never have to say you want and you will never get what you want because they are incentivized to not listen to you.
Your responses are standard reform is mainstream media responses that are delivered every single time someone brings out the talking point that electoralism and this strategy is what brought us here in the first place. When I'm advocating to do something different you're telling me that I'm wrong, when I point out that it's not work historically you tell me that we just need to give it another, when I point out how the strategy of harm reduction hasn't worked in 20 years you point out that voters need to not be apathetic to get things done. Which is true but you're not answering how you get those apathetic voters to vote and advocating on Lemmy ain't it brother.
I'm not sitting here advocating to anybody who didn't vote I'm sitting here telling people who want to spend a bunch of time trying to advocate for people to vote that it's a waste of their time and that they should be more focused on getting people to engage in electoral politics and that that interest will drive them to vote.
I am aware of what you are saying. And I never said it is the only front in the war. I am saying you are foolishly leaving that flank open and we as a whole are weaker because of it. You are very privileged that you can just not vote. Those hunted by ICE couldn't by definition and we left them abandoned because we are too pure to give them a hand. That is frankly just as gross as [to me] those who voted yes to their persecution.
Dude we have been focusing on electoralism now for the better part of 40 years and it hasn't done anything to save us. The apathetic voter problem has been a problem for a number of years and both sides have been trying to solve it.
The problem is a sole focus on electoralism or viewing electoralism as one of the most important fronts is a mistake. We have had 40 plus years of viewing electoralism as the primary means of political change and it has not delivered us any of the things we need nor any of the protections we want.
Once again that was done on the ground through local organization
We haven't. The fact that non-voting has been the biggest group for decades means the front is still hot. Thanks for abandoning your allies here and making it harder for our movement to grow.
Passed in 1993 Responding to historically low rates of voter registration, Congress passed the National Voter Registration Act.
Conclusive proof that we were already aware this was a problem and have been working on getting people to engage soley focusing on getting those people to vote.
So you know of a problem and chose to do nothing? Not beating the tankies are not serious people. And again I never said its the sole focus.
I understand that it's not your strategy to be solely focused on electoralism but it is the Democrat strategy which is the party you are pushing for.
Do you not understand what organizing locally is? Guess not. You must think that fucking soup kitchens and homeless shelters are the stuff of Miracles then. Or that the Democrats do it all
And city support is also important to their work... which means elections.....
Local elections which are often pushed for by local organization which is something that I advocate for.
Also there are plenty of these organizations that exist that don't use government help because they're unable to get it
Remember in other comments where I said that we would have more room for our movements if we take elections seriously? Its nice that you are privileged and can ignore elections, but there are plenty who cannot. Non-citizens looking for a better life and ex-cons who are trying to rejoin society come to mind.
Remember where I said we will never take elections seriously unless people local organize which should be the primary goal?
I didn't say that elections are the only thing we work on.
contradictory statement. Elections are part of the organization. So you will never organize because you will never organize? Neat, tankies are not serious people.
Remember when you said that electoralism is one of the most important fronts in the battle of the class war?
Now it's local organization? Stretching definitions much
It is.
And there are also local elections. There are state elections too. I want people to have freedoms beyond my city, beyond my state, and I can give them some help by voting in state and federal elections. Like I said its nice that your privileged position allows you to comparably ignore this, but there is a material reality to this. De-segregation happened at the federal level. The troop deployments to enforce that was at the federal level. Many other things are local.
And guess what, I never said to stop volunteering at food banks or to teach the youth academics or sports. Elections are one, very important, front in the class war. And you are only being asked to show up every now and then for an evening. And that is too much for you and your fellow "socialists"? I doubt you do much locally if a comparatively small time wise activity with high probability of impact is too much of a burden.
Don't worry. I understand its hard for the privileged to see beyond themselves.
As I said there are many organizations that took this route of electoralism being the most important front of the class or one of the most important fronts of the class war.
In most cases it only delayed the inevitable fall to facisim. See 1920's Germany for an example of this strategy used and failed to protect the minorities.
I want people to have freedom beyond the government and to actually affect change in the government. Neither thing that can be done via electoralism.
Don't worry I understand how hard it is for liberals to let go the concept of electorlism being a major front for the class war. Its not. It takes time to undo the many many many years of US propaganda though that teaches this to us.