this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2025
167 points (100.0% liked)

El Chisme

515 readers
2 users here now

Place for posting about the dumb shit public figures say.

Rules:

Rule 1: The subject of a post must be a public person.

Rule 2: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 3: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 4: No sectarianism.

Rule 5: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 6: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)

Rule 7: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 8: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Cimbazarov@hexbear.net 97 points 4 months ago (5 children)

No way that money is actually going into building factories or reshoring American industry. Shit's going straight into the stock market.

Im just curious if any "vassal" state is actually going to do anything besides capitulate. Its all so tiresome.

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 65 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Im just curious if any "vassal" state is actually going to do anything besides capitulate.

What else can the Europeans do?

Their economic transformation plan is failing. The US is sanctioning their cheap energy supply. China’s much cheaper green tech is killing their European counterparts, while China’s dumping of cheap goods into Europe under Trump’s tariffs is threatening to kill off domestic European industries, which will lead to unemployment and recession.

This is why they have gone for militarization. We’re seeing the 1930s all over again.

The only other way out is to dismantle the neoliberal project that is the EU, but that would also mean the end of the EU itself, and the bourgeois class won’t allow that. So, war it is.

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 58 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We’re seeing the 1930s all over again. The only other way out is to dismantle the neoliberal project that is the EU, but that would also mean the end of the EU itself, and the bourgeois class won’t allow that. So, war it is.

A picture of Huey Freeman looking disappointed and tired, captioned "Live Huey Reaction".

[–] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 46 points 4 months ago

Don't get all pessimistic! This is totally different, this time the nazis have nukes!

...Oh, that makes it so much worse marx-doomer

[–] Cysioland@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 4 months ago

Yeah EU is gonna capitulate, they're on that Ukrainism/white border nationalism sauce

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 33 points 4 months ago

well it's not for nothing it's called "investment" in stock market angry-place

[–] Lussy@hexbear.net 23 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

We’re so far right, in the realm of kleptocracy, that becoming a nationalist ethnostate would be an improvement.

Edit: just for all the future Tucker Carlson dick riders on the site, no I’m not being serious, it would not be better

[–] ThermonuclearEgg@hexbear.net 10 points 4 months ago

idf-cool: Challenge accepted

[–] sodium_nitride@hexbear.net 16 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'm a bit hopeful that the European bourgeois find that they have no choice but to oppose the Americans. Literally stealing trillions from the Europeans would likely be too much for even the biggest boot licking dog to tolerate. Well, ok, I know of some dogs who will not mind. But certainly the fastest way to speedrun conditions for a socialist revolution in Europe would be for the fascist American government to punch the Euros in their testicles.

[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The capitalist class in Europe is devided about this. Like in a colony, where there is always a split between comprador capital and capital whose interests are aligned with national liberation.

[–] sodium_nitride@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I wonder if there is a way to measure or estimate how much of each type of capital exists in an economy. Maybe that could give us a better estimation of where the long-term intra-class conflict might lead.

[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yes. I'm sure a reasonable way to estimate it could be found based on how capital is tied up in space and time. Local, slow circulating and high constant capital vs global, fast circulating and high variable capital. The latter might be more likely to side with or be subjugated by the empire. China is shifting to the former. (One problem is, that high constant capital firms are often also global.)

However, like in our own struggle, it's not enough to be a class that has a natural interest. You also need to be conscious of that interest to act on it. Consciousness might be forced by rising contradictions. But I don't feel like most of these national factions of capital would join a united front soon. Most of them might turn to open fascism first before they ally with us. It's an important question to explore.

Granted, maybe I'm oversimplifying here. Imperialism vs fascism. Aren't they two sides of the same coin? I'm sure there is a dialectic here. Still the question will inevitably pose itself and not just in Europe: with whom to ally as socialists? A united front against imperialism for national liberation even with factions of national capital? Or a popular front against facism even with liberals and social democrats? Even if either of them is formed successfully, both would try to betray us sooner or later. Or is there a third way ?

[–] Sebrof@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I really like that idea, and you csn take woodenghost's idea

how capital is tied up in space and time

to consider how you can categorize certain sectors in econmic data as being the material base for certain intra-class divisions within the bourgeoisie.

Obviously the below would be improved with better theory and actual data, but an initial idea could be distinguishing sectors like finance from sectors like manufacturing, agriculture, or mining.

The former (finance) may tend to be more cosmopolitan and/or have shared interests of American capital.

The latter may tend to have a more national characteristic. Due to the spatial nature of resource extraction, and the locality of the labor they exploit, their interests may be tied in more naturally with economic conditions "at home".

Then you can include known actors, groups, etc too.

At least thats an idea thay I've been exposed to.

Even if the above is too simplistic I think the idea of looking at particular sectors within economic data, and integrating that with known political groups and networks can be a springboard for answering that question.

Input output tables would have data on such sectoral divisions, but aren't the only answer. International input output tables would then tell you how each sector of capital depends on others on the global level.

Also, you're already working with input output tables (sorry I haven't been responding!) so extending what you've done to the international stage is the next natural direction.

[–] CTHlurker@hexbear.net 18 points 4 months ago

I've given up all hope that European leaders and business people know anything about literally anything. They keep getting shot in the dick by our atlanticist leaders and seemingly just roll over and take it. Like, how did Volkswagen not put up any resistance to the EU tariffing chinese EVs, which they correctly called in the financial press as a stupid move that would lead to the EU automakers also getting tariffed. Everybody in the industry could see it coming a mile away and it just didn't matter. EU leaders are just addicted to shooting their own industrialists in the dick.

[–] Candidate@hexbear.net 12 points 4 months ago

Im just curious if any "vassal" state is actually going to do anything besides capitulate. Its all so tiresome.

Frankly, it'd be more difficult for Europe to comply with any of this garbage than to just ignore it.

Trump's just going to throw an impotent tantrum, if he even remembers that he said it at all.