No way that money is actually going into building factories or reshoring American industry. Shit's going straight into the stock market.
Im just curious if any "vassal" state is actually going to do anything besides capitulate. Its all so tiresome.
this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2025
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El Chisme
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Im just curious if any "vassal" state is actually going to do anything besides capitulate.
What else can the Europeans do?
Their economic transformation plan is failing. The US is sanctioning their cheap energy supply. China’s much cheaper green tech is killing their European counterparts, while China’s dumping of cheap goods into Europe under Trump’s tariffs is threatening to kill off domestic European industries, which will lead to unemployment and recession.
This is why they have gone for militarization. We’re seeing the 1930s all over again.
The only other way out is to dismantle the neoliberal project that is the EU, but that would also mean the end of the EU itself, and the bourgeois class won’t allow that. So, war it is.
We’re seeing the 1930s all over again. The only other way out is to dismantle the neoliberal project that is the EU, but that would also mean the end of the EU itself, and the bourgeois class won’t allow that. So, war it is.
Don't get all pessimistic! This is totally different, this time the nazis have nukes!
...Oh, that makes it so much worse 
Yeah EU is gonna capitulate, they're on that Ukrainism/white border nationalism sauce
well it's not for nothing it's called "investment" in stock market 
We’re so far right, in the realm of kleptocracy, that becoming a nationalist ethnostate would be an improvement.
Edit: just for all the future Tucker Carlson dick riders on the site, no I’m not being serious, it would not be better
: Challenge accepted
I'm a bit hopeful that the European bourgeois find that they have no choice but to oppose the Americans. Literally stealing trillions from the Europeans would likely be too much for even the biggest boot licking dog to tolerate. Well, ok, I know of some dogs who will not mind. But certainly the fastest way to speedrun conditions for a socialist revolution in Europe would be for the fascist American government to punch the Euros in their testicles.
The capitalist class in Europe is devided about this. Like in a colony, where there is always a split between comprador capital and capital whose interests are aligned with national liberation.
I wonder if there is a way to measure or estimate how much of each type of capital exists in an economy. Maybe that could give us a better estimation of where the long-term intra-class conflict might lead.
Yes. I'm sure a reasonable way to estimate it could be found based on how capital is tied up in space and time. Local, slow circulating and high constant capital vs global, fast circulating and high variable capital. The latter might be more likely to side with or be subjugated by the empire. China is shifting to the former. (One problem is, that high constant capital firms are often also global.)
However, like in our own struggle, it's not enough to be a class that has a natural interest. You also need to be conscious of that interest to act on it. Consciousness might be forced by rising contradictions. But I don't feel like most of these national factions of capital would join a united front soon. Most of them might turn to open fascism first before they ally with us. It's an important question to explore.
Granted, maybe I'm oversimplifying here. Imperialism vs fascism. Aren't they two sides of the same coin? I'm sure there is a dialectic here. Still the question will inevitably pose itself and not just in Europe: with whom to ally as socialists? A united front against imperialism for national liberation even with factions of national capital? Or a popular front against facism even with liberals and social democrats? Even if either of them is formed successfully, both would try to betray us sooner or later. Or is there a third way ?
I really like that idea, and you csn take woodenghost's idea
how capital is tied up in space and time
to consider how you can categorize certain sectors in econmic data as being the material base for certain intra-class divisions within the bourgeoisie.
Obviously the below would be improved with better theory and actual data, but an initial idea could be distinguishing sectors like finance from sectors like manufacturing, agriculture, or mining.
The former (finance) may tend to be more cosmopolitan and/or have shared interests of American capital.
The latter may tend to have a more national characteristic. Due to the spatial nature of resource extraction, and the locality of the labor they exploit, their interests may be tied in more naturally with economic conditions "at home".
Then you can include known actors, groups, etc too.
At least thats an idea thay I've been exposed to.
Even if the above is too simplistic I think the idea of looking at particular sectors within economic data, and integrating that with known political groups and networks can be a springboard for answering that question.
Input output tables would have data on such sectoral divisions, but aren't the only answer. International input output tables would then tell you how each sector of capital depends on others on the global level.
Also, you're already working with input output tables (sorry I haven't been responding!) so extending what you've done to the international stage is the next natural direction.
I’ve been wondering this specifically with the consolidation of the international engineering and construction market. Large international firms vs small/medium local/regional firms vs government. And then those that have building capabilities vs design only. And the large firms incessantly absorb the small/medium ones.
Larger international firms can float way more risk and take on bigger projects, and projects where they don’t necessarily make a financial gain but political eg assuming the role of planner for a small government.
Idk what I’m getting at much either- but your mention of global capital investment made me think of this as the US tries to push as many engineers as possible towards the private sector and ultimately these larger, international firms - as well as push “public-private partnerships” 🤮 which result from diminishing the public sector and then using its corpse to prop up projects which funnel public funds to investors (since large firms tend to be public) rather than “employee owned” like small firms (also rarely true).
Do you have any examples of such projects, sounds like you have some interesting stories (but obviously no pressure if it could dox you)
Yeah, I'm not certain who actually funds engineering firms or what their connections are - but first hand experience of people in the field, plus some real data would definitely help get an idea about that.
The conquest of small firms and the consolidation is part of capitalist development, though, it's the tendencies of capital concentration. These large dominating firms doing planning actually plants the seeds for socialism, though, even though they are currently private. That's an example of how labor is already being socialized under capitalism by huge monopolies, but it's organization or control, though, isn't socialized. (Growing contradiction between the socialization of labor and the private class ownership of it).
It is upsetting though when you can see the infrastructure for public engineering works being built - just to have it appropriated and used for private gain. I have definitely seen that contradiction play out at my own job! But, hey, that's why we need a revolution. The means of production are already being built and increasingly socialized already, but now they must be seized!
But I don't have much concretely to say about engineering firms - so if you have any details or thoughts feel free to share!
Yeah I’ll dig. My interest in it stemmed from looking at the board of directors for publicly traded companies, and then their ties to other industries and governments, and it’s a pretty clear pattern of …idk…. Success under capitalism I suppose, but not ethical engineering. But I’m a fucking rube who cares about that sort of thing lol. Lemme see what I can find
Jacobs BOD: https://www.jacobs.com/about/board-directors
AECOM BOD: https://investors.aecom.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors
Stantec BOD: https://www.stantec.com/en/about/corporate-governance/board-of-directors
WSP BOD: https://www.wsp.com/en-us/investors/corporate-governance/board-of-directors
Idk I just started looking at overlap between boards of directors of major engineering firms, and the other firms they align with, compared to the projects they pursue and develop through policy, and idk I think capital might influence policy or something. Potentially to societal detriment? Someone should write about this.
I've given up all hope that European leaders and business people know anything about literally anything. They keep getting shot in the dick by our atlanticist leaders and seemingly just roll over and take it. Like, how did Volkswagen not put up any resistance to the EU tariffing chinese EVs, which they correctly called in the financial press as a stupid move that would lead to the EU automakers also getting tariffed. Everybody in the industry could see it coming a mile away and it just didn't matter. EU leaders are just addicted to shooting their own industrialists in the dick.
Im just curious if any "vassal" state is actually going to do anything besides capitulate. Its all so tiresome.
Frankly, it'd be more difficult for Europe to comply with any of this garbage than to just ignore it.
Trump's just going to throw an impotent tantrum, if he even remembers that he said it at all.
Nothing more dangerous than being an ally of the US
"To be an enemy of America is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal" 
Lmao, we posted this almost simultaneously. Damn, you. 
To be fair to you, I prefer my quote authors'/speakers' names presented with a hyphen. So you get the upvotes. It's the little things that matter
It's good to see that my obsession with getting the small details right finally paid off. 
It's hilarious we were on the exact same emoji wavelength
The great minds of Hexbear think alike. 
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." -
The eurodollar siphon will be horrendous and leave them very poor. Essentially all global debt is in USD, the world is fucked :/
Guess they saw the news about Norway divesting from Israel. I wonder who's about to be liberated and have 2 trillion of assets seized?
I'll cover some Ansarallah marches in Norwegian and report from the ground when the day comes.
I mean, the fuck is Hans gonna do? 
is this a boomerang?
This seems incoherent to me. Foreign direct investment is already very significant in our economy. I have thought for a while that the US should have a sovereign wealth fund buy foreign government debt, which would supply US currency to the world without needing a trade deficit, thus weakening the dollar and strengthening foreign currencies, which would reduce the trade deficit and possibly increase American manufacturing. It seems like a smarter way to do it than tariffs, anyway, and unlike tariffs, I think it would not be perceived as hostile by other countries. But that would be the opposite of what Bessent is saying as far as I can tell.
The American establishment, particularly the right wing, they're not there because they are the smartest or best at what they do ...
The Americans have had many options for weakening the dollar while simultaneously quelling domestic dissent. Aka, turn on the money printer and forgive various debts or lower their interest rates (student loans, credit card loans, even mortgages would be big ones). They could even literally just force powell to lower the fed rates (what would he do if ICE showed up at this office?).
All of these things would be percieved as even less hostile than the Americans buying up foreign debt, and would directly contribute to creating the kind of healthy and financially stable workforce that would be needed for re-industrialization.
Thankfully, or not so thankfully, the American ruling class has become incapable of compromise, and intends on giving us a show.
I seem to remember a clique of German nationalists who also ran a mafia-style empire of institutionalized corruption.
I just watched a video from breakthrough news about how they are pushing this protection racket onto South Korea as well. The US is clearly an insane country and this behavior will hopefully speed up the collapse of the empire. But a part of me does find it hilarious that the comprafor states are getting stabbed in the back. Also I think the playbook for this was done by Trump's son in law Jared with Qatar. Pure corruption
Central Planning with American Characteristics
I wonder what would feddit crowds say to this. Probably just frothing fash emoji