this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2026
32 points (82.0% liked)
The Deprogram
1958 readers
135 users here now
"As revolutionaries, we don't have the right to say that we're tired of explaining. We must never stop explaining. We also know that when the people understand, they cannot but follow us. In any case, we, the people, have no enemies when it comes to peoples. Our only enemies are the imperialist regimes and organizations." Thomas Sankara, 1985
International Anti-Capitalist podcast run by an American, a Slav and an Arab.
Rules:
- No capitalist apologia / anti-communism.
- No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
- Be respectful. This is a safe space where all comrades should feel welcome; this includes a warning against uncritical sectarianism.
- No porn or sexually explicit content (even if marked NSFW).
- No right-deviationists (patsocs, nazbols, Strasserists, Duginists, etc).
- Use c/mutual_aid for mutual aid requests.
Resources:
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
-_- Of course...should've guessed that
Haha no worries. Westerners as a class agsinst the global south apparently is a step too far in this thread because I have to care about the feelings of poor whites while their imperialist state and civil society collaborate in crushing folks domestically and abroad while paying lip service against the Epstein files. In a ML space(!) Had to make a separate comment about Brown vs Board to make it extra clear that ain't just some tiny super rich elite that is the problem here. I took a break from lemmygrad because of white settler politics apologism here but I wonder if my development as an ML probably has outgrown this place.
Man, it's so wierd MLs think racism and such are caused by the ruling class.
I read a quote recently that was like,
"In the final analysis, national struggle is a matter of class struggle. Among the whites in the United States, it is only the reactionary ruling circles that oppress the black people. They can in no way represent the workers, farmers, revolutionary intellectuals and other enlightened persons who comprise the overwhelming majority of the white people." That must've come from like a eurocommunist or and FRSO member or something.
And before you accuse me of book worship, my point is that it's very presumptuous and arrogant to claim you're above a space when they're simply arguing a line that has been existent since Lenin, if not marx himself. Even if we are to presume you are right
I think in this case by "outgrow", they mean "shifted to something other than ML." Their takes in this thread, from what I can gather, represent a tunnel-visioning on the labor aristocracy view, to the point that it overshadows everything else. My main disagreement with them in this thread started from them writing off a billion people as comparable to documented ruling elite pedophiles: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/11901324/8319299
It has been a bizarre experience. They keep saying it's about the settler contradiction, but have yet to explain to me how exactly they think the contradiction needs to be confronted in a way that is different from what people are already trying and in a way that people can realistically taken action on. Like I'm well aware of the possibility of betrayal, that it has happened before, but the whole back and forth made more sense to me in the context of a quote I recently read about Bordiga: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/11887529/8317276
It is fine to be cautious or to be concerned, but we need to examine what the real, observable threats/deviations are. For example, the ACP. We can point at that and say, yeah, people should stay away from that and be wary of it. If we point at a billion people and say, people should stay away from that and be wary of it, that's unrealistic and impractical to say the least.
The whole thing feels reminiscent of ultra-like criticism of AES states, but applied to any attempt at all on the part of westerners to dismantle the horrific systems it has. There are of course valid criticisms of attempts made. Some attempts are far less effective and some are downright shitty, but they are not all the same across the board.
I have stuff going on and don't have the time and energy to get in the posting trenches but you are correct and I uncritically support your struggle to make westerners seriously analyze class relations in the global system of imperialism.