this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2025
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[–] Lembot_0006@programming.dev 22 points 2 months ago (5 children)

FORTRAN isn't a beauty either.
And Python is strange as hell with its mandatory tabs.

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 22 points 2 months ago (2 children)

You can use spaces in Python.

[–] marduk 23 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Two, three or four spaces? If you answer wrong I'll never forgive you

[–] TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub 16 points 2 months ago

Whatever your place defines as a standard. I’ve seen ugly code in C, JavaScript, Java, etc., that uses them all over the place because they’re not mandatory.

If you don’t have consistent indenting, your code looks like copy/paste from several sources; but if you do have consistent indenting, then the indenting of Python is a non-issue.

[–] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Per the Linux kernel coding style:

Tabs are 8 characters, and thus indentations are also 8 characters. There are heretic movements that try to make indentations 4 (or even 2!) characters deep, and that is akin to trying to define the value of PI to be 3.

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 months ago

First off, I’d suggest printing out a copy of the GNU coding standards, and NOT read it. Burn them, it’s a great symbolic gesture.

[–] fartsparkles@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

I’m rather partial to five myself but only when I’m feeling fancy.

No one will ever know. That is my editor's job. XD

[–] ChaosMonkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago

Depends on the mood.

[–] firelizzard@programming.dev 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Indentation-driven control flow is one of the most cursed things ever invented, excluding things explicitly designed to inflict pain or death.

[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 2 months ago

White space sensitive languages are evil.

[–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 months ago

Haskell has the choice of both indentation based and brackets for things like do blocks, but most people use indentation based cause it's the norm and looks cleaner

[–] tyler@programming.dev 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

List comprehensions are much stranger than tabs vs spaces. There are very very very few languages that use them, and python’s is by far the worst out of the popular ones.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Skill issue. Once you learn them they are quite fun.

[–] unit327@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 months ago

The concept of a list comprehenshion is sinple but syntax is awful, as if Yoda was writing a for loop. "x for x in y it is, hmm yes".

[–] tyler@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago

I'm not saying I don't understand them. I'm saying the syntax is terrible. Compare it to Ruby (or any other modern language) and it's abundantly clear.

python (uses syntax not available in any other top 25 language)

print([j**2 for j in [2, 3, 4, 5]]) # => [4, 9, 16, 25]

ruby (normal chain syntax with map)

puts [2, 3, 4, 5].map{|j| j**2}

even kotlin is more readable, even though you have to convert to a double and back kotlin

val list = listOf(1,2,3,4)
println(list.map{it.toDouble().pow(2.0).toInt()})

For nested cases it's even more apparent:

python

digits = [1, 2, 3]
chars = ['a', 'b', 'c']    
print([str(d)+ch for d in digits for ch in chars if d >= 2 if ch == 'a'])    
# => ['2a', '3a']

ruby

digits = [1, 2, 3]
chars = ['a', 'b', 'c']   
digits.product(chars).select{ |d, ch| d >= 2 && ch == 'a' }.map(&:join)

kotlin

val digits = listOf(1, 2, 3)
val chars = listOf('a', 'b', 'c')
println(digits.flatMap { d ->
    chars.filter { ch -> d >= 2 && ch == 'a' }.map { ch -> "${d}${ch}" }})

just from a base level, you have to read the middle of the comprehension first, then the end, then the beginning. It's a completely backwards way to write and read code. unlike other languages that use a 'functional' approach, where it's chained methods or pipes, etc. Even Elixir, which does have list comprehensions, reads and writes in the proper order:

elixir

for x <- 0..100, x * x > 3, do: x * 2
[–] OfCourseNot@fedia.io 5 points 2 months ago

Wasn't the python convention to use spaces (4 iirc)? Which is just plain wrong imho.

[–] aloofPenguin@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

This is the one thing I hate about python, because the spacing would differ between editors. I used vim to create the files on one system, and geany to edit them on another. Via uses 8 spaces in a tab (at least for me), while geany uses 4. This makes python mad, and drives me crazy. 

Also, the rules for whitespace separation between things like loops, methods, and the rest of the code is annoying/ wierd (at least to me).

[–] who@feddit.org 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Via uses 8 spaces in a tab (at least for me), while geany uses 4.

You know that editors let you change their defaults, right?

[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

and that indentation defaults in decent editors are usually language dependent. I'm not familiar with these editors, but... come on - if they use one default for all files, OP should use a better tool.

[–] aloofPenguin@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Yes, but I don't normally program in python, so I never did. When I had to, I never thought of changing it (it wasn't for long anyways and was less of a thought out decision to do programming in vim)

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 13 points 2 months ago

Get a code formatter. Ruff is popular. So is black. Never think about it again.

[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

most repos use 4 spaces