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:-/
This feels like the time Poland sent eight soldiers in with the US invasion of Iraq.
These are advance troops that will figure out logistics, where it makes sense to deploy a bigger force. What they need, and infrastructure.
They are also a deterrent, if german soldiers are killed shit will hit the fan.
Often called "tripwire forces" when they were NATO troops stationed in Eastern Europe. Their purpose is to force the adversary to kill some people before it can take any territory, ensuring that they can't simply make it a fait accompli and hope there will be no further repercussions.
I mean, we'll see. But if the US really is serious about taking Greenland by force, you've got a US military base already on the island that's been running these defense calculations for decades. It's going to be an uphill climb just to reach parity with the Americans on securing the territory. I hope this isn't perfunctory, and someone is asking the question "How do we deal with one or more US aircraft carriers?" seriously.
You mean like that time when a Swedish diesel sub bypassed all the defenses and "sunk" the US carrier?
Or that time when Netherlands sub "sunk" one?
Or that time when Australia "sunk" one?
Or that time when Canada "sunk" one?
Those carriers are far from invincible.
The USA is historically bad at wars - Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea - all lost despite their massive military spending.
The only wars they won in modern times are the ones where they received help from their EU NATO allies.
They're only good at "strike and run away" operations, like the one in Venezuela.
If they can't take Greenland overnight, it will cost them very dearly to go to war with NATO, with no certainty of winning.
To add to this, the US is not that great in the Arctic. To occupy Greenland they need boots on the ground, and they are not equipped or manned to do Arctic land operations. EU + Canada surpass them in that. The US only has the one airborne division that are actually cold weather fighters. They also have far fewer ice breakers and the additional units that they were going to buy from Finland (who makes the best ones in the world) will surely be canceled.
Are they going to kill German & French troops to do that? If there are UK troops there then goodbye to hundreds of billions in AUKUS $ too.
Any US carrier strike group can probably sink the entire navy of most countries. This calls for a full NATO response because if it doesn't then I don't know what does
Wasn't it one of the Nordics that 'sunk' an American carried in drills a while back?
It did, and the US considered the outcome so concerning that they requested to lease the submarine (but not install a crew - Swedish sailors would operate it in the US navy). Since those were different times, with only mild insanity among US presidents, Sweden granted the request.
Wikipedia tells us:
One of? I thought it was several...
Yes, the Swedish diesel electric subs are really quiet and hard to detect in a war game scenario, but that is done with many artificial constraints to the defending CSG, which is tightly packed in a relatively small patch of ocean that the Swedish sub knew and could plan for.
In reality those subs are stealthy only while traveling at 6 knots and the CSG can travel at 30 over vast expanses of water, with an effective strike range of 2000 miles.
Also, in war they're allowed to use high energy sonars that they can't use in a war game because it kills marine animals, which will detect a turd floating 500 miles away (exaggerating here but you get the idea).
Just interesting math... A singular fully staffed US aircraft carrier anchoring off the coast of Greenland would increase the overall population of Greenland by around 10%.
It just says that they will be participating in some exercises. Nothing about permanent force.
Yo Mr. Mertz brief this guy on the real plan and what orders you gave those soldiers!
Should this article also state what they will be having for breakfast?
I wish I was still so naive I believed EU has some secret plan to defeat US. Especially Germany, country that was blind to the threat Russia posed for two decades. Yeah, I'm sure they will go to war over Greenland now...
It's also funny that they are open about sending this tiny group of soldiers, something they could easily hide, but are hiding the plan to send a bigger force, something that will be impossible to hide. Kind of silly, really. Almost like thinking that Germany would commit any permanent force to Greenland without informing their own public.
It's all a show yes, they try to show tough now, but will fold once Trump makes any real move for Greenland.
It's not about realistically fighting of the US if they decide to really go for it, but they will have to kill European soldiers if they decide to do so. This would effectively end NATO and the transantlantic partnership.
Hi. I have to step in about Polish soldiers :p I don't know what you're referring to but there were 2500 Polish soldiers deployed to Iraq, 150 wounded and 28 dead. That was during very hard economic times for Poland, still recovering from communism. Somehow they found money for this and sent them with really shitty equipment (cars “armoured” with bulletproof vests on the doors as protection for example)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_involvement_in_the_Iraq_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balcerowicz_Plan#Effects
:-/ Like saying they're still recovering from a charlie horse after you put a shotgun to their kneecaps.
But yes, Poland limped into the Iraq War and managed to catch several hundred strays over the course of the conflict. In exchange, the Bush Administration kicked the country back $200M in relief (contingent on further privatization and financialization of their nascent market system).
Blood money spends well, at least.
What? That didn't happen. Poland sent thousands of troops to support the war.
200, in the year of the invasion. It swelled to 2,500 over the next five years, then trickled away into a final withdrawal a month before the Republicans lost the White House in 2008.
There were smaller deployments - Iceland sent 2 soldiers, for instance. But it all paled behind the the US at 150k and UK at 46k. Which goes back to the whole problem with a NATO internal conflict. The US is the backbone of European defense. Again, what do any of these countries plan to do against an aircraft carrier group? Nobody seems to have a serious answer.
Serious question: how will a carrier group fare in arctic ice during winter? Will it be what is needed to hold an Arctic island after showing up all bristly in the summer months?
While the USA’s relatively slim arctic-ready forces are deployed on the Atlantic side of the ice, what will be happening on the pacific side?
An answer: they can take it, but when winter comes, holding it will be difficult. The northern NATO members have notable infantry that can use the ice to advantage, and there are only five or six harbours of interest in Greenland.
Climate change has made this a receding problem, which is one reason why Greenland is suddenly hot property. In another ten years, you may be able to sail the perimeter of Greenland fully unobstructed all year round.
Holding it from whom? Nobody in NATO actually has the stomach for the kind of losses they'd take.
Honest reaction to a serious question. The American military complex isn’t about specific fighting doctrine. It’s by far the world’s largest logistics organization. The airlift capacity of the military likely means that a carrier group wouldn’t have to stick around.
I have mental images of carpet bombing paths through sea ice. Ice is tough, but 500lb dumb bombs do pack quite a punch, and there is a big fleet of bombers that would operate with relative impunity once air dominance is achieved with the aforementioned carrier group.
Another perspective is that the US has military bases all around Europe. They don't need to fight in Greenland if they can pressure opposing governments directly on their home turf
Distract it from Putin. Who do you think is running this clown show?
Peter Thiel, Steven Miller, and David Navaro, by the look of things.
It's 13. Germany is sending 13 soldiers. Literally the minimum to be able to say "over a dozen".
It's more than they sent to Ukraine!
Still better than the orange juice America got from Israel for its wars.