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this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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I'm not very comfortable with these type of bans.
People say women shouldn't be forced to wear certain items of clothing and deal with it by forcing them to wear different items of clothing.
Doesn't seem very productive.
I always think of that meme with a women in full body coverings and a women wearing a bikini and they're both thinking about how awful it is that society pressures women to dress like the other.
Playing the advocate of the devil: the reason given is clearly stated as not being about being forced to wear anything, but about a general ban on religious signs in state schools. For example I imagine wearing a Christian cross around your neck is also banned.
A consistently enforced bad law is still a bad law. All consistently means is that everyone has to suffer.
Yeah, I simply stated what reason was given for the ban by the minister, which the comment above me seems to have read over.
Why are government officials all-powerful and all-weak at the same time? Funny how that works. The law is dumb, problematic, impossible to enforce? Hands are tied. The law makes sense and easy to perform? Selectively enforced if at all.
Yep. Yarmulkes are also banned, and I wouldn't be able to wander around the school with my 9 pointed star necklace or ring, even though NO ONE knows what they mean.
Baha’i?
Yes, but did you know that before looking it up? Also we aren't the only ones to use the symbol, just the latest.
I admit I did not. I appreciate you sharing your anecdote, I learned something new today thanks to you.
Still, schools shouldn't be able to dictate how people can dress as long as they cover their genitals and their clothes aren't dangerous.
Eh, maybe... In my public, absolutely standard highschool we still had a dress code, you couldn't have bare legs or excessively low collars
And here in sweden the justice system has to dole out yearly reminders to schools that dressing freely is protected by the constitution, and dress codes or uniforms are literally illegal.
That’s….amazing tbh
That's amazing, why don't we have something like this in Germany
God that sounds dreadful. I used to get mocked outside of school for wearing poor clothes when I was young. Imagine having to deal with that literally all the time.
Yeah here in sweden we have welfare so everyone can afford basics like that.
We have welfare too. Doesn't change the fact that people on welfare aren't regularly buying expensive clothing. Same goes for Sweden.
i thought you meant that they had ragged clothes, people don't really flaunt expensive clothes that much here.
any bad treatment in schools here is generally just down to kids having bad home environments and taking it out on those they percieve as weaker, or kids having undiagnosed autism/adhd and having trouble with being social so they just sorta get forgotten about.
You don't generally get bullied for being poor here because you don't generally really notice that people are poor, and with high living standards there simply ends up being less bullying.
I'm really sorry to hear you have that experience that sounds awful, the concept of poor clothes doesn't exist everywhere though so I'm not really sure what to say, I really wish I could've worn whatever I liked at school since I had to wear coats in summer at the cost of my health (my skin kinda sucks ngl) and the uniform they asked us to buy was so expensive and ill fitting. Again, you've got a different experience and I respect that.
I seriously doubt it. And I’m sure if it is, no one enforces it.
Edit: y’all can vote me down all day, but the law says “ostentacious religious insignia,” and I’m sure a little cross has been overlooked many times.
It is 100% banned. Any religious apparel or trinkets are banned.
No it isn’t. The 2004 law banned “large” crosses and allowed small ones but banned ALL hijabs.
It was never equally enforced.
Allowed small ones, obscured by clothing.
A necklace under your shirt is fine. That applies as equally to a cross as it does to an islamic moon and star.
They just aren't allowed to be massive so that they're visible even under some clothing.
The law is already unequal and discriminatory and that’s before we even get to the unequal enforcement. Muslims are sent home from school while Christians are not for the same rule violations (e.g. Christians in France who observe Ash Wednesday).
Don't you think it's culturally biased? The norm for Christians is a small cross necklace. The norm for Muslims is not. Isn't it quite convenient that the exception fits well with one religion but not the other?
Actually,
Up for debate.
Maybe you should be less confident about things you don’t know. In this particular regard, the French are quite consistent.
That’s the law. That’s pretty vague. So, I’m pretty confident not everyone is enforcing a tiny cross necklace.
If I was a French teenager I would wear a cross to school and claim it was a T.
Just wear all the symbols and say you’re being inclusive.
Coexisting like a stone cold mother fucker.
Is this a “Brave New World” reference?
If you're going to copy and paste something several times, and are representing it as a quotation from law, maybe spell-check it? Also, I think there are good arguments to be made on both sides of this issue, but comparing an inconspicuous piece of jewelry to an abaya seems disingenuous. If small crosses were allowed, but small star and crescents weren't, that would obviously be wrong.
It’s a quote. It’s copy and paste. If someone spelled it wrong, it’s not me.
Either way. If a tiny cross is allowed and a tiny star is not, that’s bad.
No symbols should be allowed of any kind. 🤷♂️
I wonder how they handle tattoos.
You would be very wrong
“ostentacious religious insignia” is the law.