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Durable societies are unfortunately bound to have such inconveniences for some in exchange for the betterment of many.
Tech companies have released the equivalent of digital opium so they and the government are accountable.
When we look back at the opioid epidemic of the 90s we don't blame the addicts or their families (well I suppose we did at one point, without the benefit of hindsight or a bigger picture view), we blame the Sacklers, pharmaceutical companies, doctors that took kickbacks etc.
I'd hate for us to make the same mistake just because the drug is delivered in a way we don't completely understand yet.
It's also not as simple as asking parents to simply be better at parenting, whatever that may mean. The drug is already out on the street, widely available, and ridiculously addictive. Keeping your child from it is not only depriving them of a dopamine hit that their brains are not developed enough to simply ignore (even most adults are addicted) and it is in many cases relegating them to social ostracization.
This is far beyond what one parent or group of parents can fix. It requires a societal level change which generally needs to come from the government, whether we like it or not.
I'd be happy to hear out possible solutions and, as a parent, share what is viable and what isn't. It would be nice to hear from other parents also.
This rhetoric is very dangerous. It's fueling censorship specifically targeting marginalized people
Some important context on this user before anyone else gets dragged into a discussion: check their post history, multiple to a "Youth Liberation" community.
No shade meant by calling it out, but I think that makes it much more clear how strong your opinions are on this. There's nothing to be gained in trying to talk to you about this when your opinions are set so strongly. You aren't going to see the dangers that the rest of us see because your focus is on allowing freedom from oppresive parental figures.
Edit: they also "won't give an inch on this"
"The dangers" are a moral Panic that's been kicked off by Nazis
You can't seriously be saying that in the comments of a post linking to leaked internal documents showing that one of these companies is aware of the dangers they pose and damage they are doing. Did nazis falsify internal documents and this leak?
Did you somehow miss the Cambridge Analytica scandal with Facebook, where they manipulated the emotional content of users' feeds and gathered scientifically significant measurable responses in the emotions of the manipulated users?
Have you missed where each of these companies has had many public job postings for positions requiring applicants have psychology degrees?
People like to think of 4chan as the website that drove people to suicide, but every single one of the major social media sites has a fucking body count at this point, and almost every one is in the double digits.
Beyond all that, lemmy's userbase trends older. I saw the tail end of the satanic panic into the moral grandstanding about the dangers of violent video games. I'd wager most of the users here lived through it.
I know firsthand what a moral panic looks like. They didn't have the amount of research papers (that hold up to peer review) and leaked internal documents we can point at. They didn't have body counts even remotely similar.
Keep on fighting for opressed teens to have more ways to get away from opressive parents. To have access to factual information that their parents don't want them to have. It's a good cause with not many people fighting for it.
That doesn't mean though that anything you think challenges or opposes it is a nazi plot.
Teens are resilient and have astounding amounts of time on their hands. They'll find a way to communicate, ways to make their own underground social platforms if they need to. The cat's out of the bag. It's the fucking internet. Corpos, government boots, no one can truly stop the signal. They couldn't back in the days of dial up BBS. Good fucking luck now that you can get a device orders of magnitude more powerful for $50.
Don't bother replying for my sake. I'm blocking you so I don't get increasingly shitty towards you. Your mind's made up on this, and so is mine. No point going back and forth if we're just going to get more frustrated and exasperated at each other. Best of luck in your endeavours.
Sure, legalize heroin for 12 year olds so parents can regulate it themselves. Imbecilic reasoning.
How does that even logic?
That's the point, it doesn't. Much like the argument about targeting marginalized people when you're talking about children.
Edit: Yes, there are plenty of children and teens without access to information and the support structures they should have IRL. I was one of them and it's fucking awful. The internet can help with that by offering exposure to different ideologies, evidence that you aren't alone in what you're feeling or going through.
But I don't look back on everything I did and encountered online in mid 00s - early 10s era internet and go "that was overwhelmingly a great thing that I should have had the sort of unrestricted access to that I did". And the internet has been even more corporatized and "skinner-boxed" since.
And with the benefit of hindsight, I can see a bunch of other ways that I could have gotten the good I got from the internet without all the bad, and through things in real life that I had dismissed in my youth.
we owe today's teens a better internet experience. we should focus on building something that would have been ideal for us to have had when we were their age
Teens and children, and the pushback you're seeing is because a lot of people, even terminally online people, believe that limiting or preventing children (and teens) from accessing social media as they currently exist is part of making that happen.
You have to slow the bleeding first. You can't just ignore the broken leg and start physical therapy.
Teens vary wildly in maturity and are likely to be unfortunately caught up in rules for children. There's no easy cutoff age before 18 for when one can be trusted to be online without guard rails. I can speak from experience that teens will find a way whether its legal or not, so I'm not really super concerned about the ones who need access. They'll find a way.
And for every person like you that says they are still alive because of unrestricted internet, there's another one who is dead because of it. 4chan, tumblr, reddit even (remember when they "totally figured out the boston bomber"?), and more direct cyberbullying all claim lives. There were 3 suicides in my highschool growing up, two determined to be cyberbullying caused and the third just rumored. I almost lost one of my younger cousins to cyberbullying as well.
This isn't stopping the bleeding, the people who caused the bleeding in the first place of the ones doing this. I don't trust a single person in the Epstein files to have good intentions towards children or teenagers.
I hate these people. I'm at a loss for words
You’re confused by the assertion that access to social media is at least as bad for children as some banned drugs? Is this your first day on earth?
It's not as bad as drugs. Don't give your kids phones. Be a parent. Don't need to upload all our data and Id to palantir databases for tracking under the same old "protect the children" bullshit
Hard disagree.
This isn’t necessary. For instance, simply require any device to which children have access to preinstall software that blocks 90% of the internet. Problem solved.
Can you explain how social media would cause worse outcomes than kids doing hard drugs
It isn't (just) a technical problem for parents. Having the underage social media ban means that there isn't the peer pressure for kids to use - well there is, but its much lower
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Nanny