this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2026
11 points (76.2% liked)
Technology
1378 readers
45 users here now
A tech news sub for communists
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Obligatory Intellectual property in the times of AI mention
@CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
Also, a comment I found under this article:
spoiler Also, one (out of many) of Cory's points mentioned in the last paragraph of the comment:
Also also, @yogthos@lemmygrad.ml
nothing to add, @CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml nailed it :)
Well, that's only my two cents and I don't know either of these writers but I read the original post and the response with great interest. It seems clear to me that Cory was writing a newsletter (literally updating people about his blog) and the LLM portion is small because of this. That doesn't mean it can't be critiqued, but clearly Cory was not writing a manifesto for LLMs there so it seems kind of unexplained to me, again not knowing anything about the writers or publications, to want to write a whole response to a small anecdote/rant about someone's own use of LLMs:
spoiler
Tante's writer contradicts themselves a few times and doesn't make a great case for themselves, and a lot of their arguments rely on pure idealism. It seems to me they have not examined their own line on AI and therefore rely on some hodgepodge of things they've heard and things they've arrived at implicitly glued together. Therefore the response is full of contradictions and seems more like what they took issue with was that someone they read had a positive opinion of AI.Some of the contradictions:
But then:
The computers used in banks were used differently from the personal computers that made their way into our homes. They had different protocols in place into how they could be used and connect to the network, having to log your work, not leaving personal files on it, archiving work files every X years etc. So we see that it is indeed not the technology itself that's problematic, but how it is used, and I suppose this is what separates marxists from vibes-based leftism. If someone is punching you and you punch them back, you might both be considered violent, but we see that this violence has a character: someone was attacking, and the other was defending themselves.
Their argument also doesn't explain why the USSR was interested in machine learning and AI (yes, neural networks are not new, they were being tested with vacuum tubes as far back as the 50s and the USSR was very big into it) and why China is making so many models. They ascribe a universal character to different system instead of taking them in their particular material context. Frankly there is very little material analysis at all in both pieces, because neither look at things in their totality and in the material world. Any analysis or critique of AI that ignores what's happening in wholly different states just won't produce anything actionable.
They further contradict the earlier argument here:
(emphasis mine). They agree that things develop differently. But as for the difference they try to make between a search engine and AI, they are starting to twist themselves into knots there to try and keep up their deeply-held beliefs. There is nothing that says a search engine has to be this way, or that an LLM has to be that way. Secondly, Google has been under fire for years for trying to get people to stay in their 'loop' and not leave the results page. There are LLM providers that focus on making them into a search engine.
And then contradict this anyway:
So they're indirectly saying a search engine only has surface-level differences from an LLM, which cancels their entire point about how search engines are actually different enough on the surface to be good while LLMs are still bad. That part felt like they didn't have a problem with the stuff they grew up with because it was normalized, but couldn't articulate it and so it produces this contradiction.
Another contradiction:
And two paragraphs later:
Exactly, the technology will exist whether we use it or not, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube as they say. So what's the solution? Pretend it doesn't exist? Berate people into compliance? It's like saying I don't want to use drones in my war because they're pretty scary and barbaric. Sure, but the adversary is using them and will be very happy that you are not using drones against them (see Hedgehog 25 military exercise in Estonia). It's self-defeatist to refuse to use something because it's the "tool of the enemy", which is the grown-up way of saying it has cooties. They talk about not building the nexus torment, but what if building some of the nexus torment allowed us to destroy it for good? We know this intuitively as marxists: there will not be socialism without capitalism first.
On top of which are several words that betray what the author really thinks, such as putting AI in quotes (because it's not actually "intelligent" you see), or calling it stochastic, or the inclusion of the "(often wrongly)" in a paragraph I quoted. That's the sort of keywords you see repeated all the time on twitter from people who briefly tried chatGPT in 2023 when it was underbaked, made up their mind about it then and never tried LLMs again or followed what has been happening since then.
Good response. It seems to me that both parties here don't really have fully coherent arguments. There is indeed a tech-libertarian bent to the arguments made by Cory Doctorow, which is not always compatible with a how a Marxist analysis would approach this topic. On the other hand, the critique also seems to stray too far into moralism and the idea of expressing your ethics through consumption, which, again, is not the dialectical-materialist outlook. In fact it has somewhat of a superstitious feel to it, like you are incurring "bad karma" by using certain products.
For example: In the piece they mention using What's App being problematic because Meta is problematic. That is a moralistic argument. A more practical reason why you shouldn't use What's App is security and data privacy - backdoors for intelligence agencies, and the fact that companies like Google, Meta or Apple are embedded with the security state. And it depends on what you use it for. Context matters. Using it discuss revolutionary organizing - maybe not a great idea; using it for a parent discussion group about your kid's school - probably fine. It's not so much what you use but how you use it.
Yeah there are strange takes on both sides. Doctorow for example talks about liberating LLMs and his act of liberation is just... using a local model. Normal people cannot liberate LLMs because asidr from the extremely high level of expertise, it requires a bonkers amount of resources. As such the only thing adjacent to liberation that is happening right now is the release of Chinese open source models. No one gives a fuck about Mistral, Trinity or Llama. But Doctorow does not get into the details of this liberation.
Tante's post on the other hand also has soms good bits. Purity testing is an idealistic distraction but purity testing is often used as a strawman to distract from what he called negative externalities. But the part about Omelas is just crazy. Who reads that story and concludes that the correct choice to walk away?
It's only through ML the contradictions are sublimated ie the solution to privatised control is not to unsocialise the labour but to socialise control of the means of production as an extension of socialised labour... which is why China is winning whereas the best West has to offer to counter what they consider "corporatism" is limitinv - either anti-AI artisanal variety of reaction or "pro-AI" but some version of what Doctorow has to offer as a solution - ie individualised "emancipation" (and I still think your article was a good share)
I used to consider marxism-leninism as anti-moralism, and anti-purity/anti-dogma but I am not so sure now. Now I wonder if we just have a different set of morals and dogma - a scientific one
https://redsails.org/aristocratic-marxism/
Nice analysis
Great response!