this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2026
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Morally superior? Dude, I’m not the one poo-poo-ing everyone else’s voting record. It’s not what I do to feel morally superior, it’s what I do to feel moral at all. I will not support or endorse genocide. That means I will not support or endorse the democrats unless they stop support for Israel’s genocide.
I absolutely reject this idea that I’m responsible for what the republicans do. They’re fascists, and they can get fucked. So are the democrats on most issues. That’s in them. And if you take some extreme view of morality whereby you’re morally responsible for the actions of other moral agents (unless you deny that the politicians are human beings with their own agency), then fine, I am responsible by that metric and I think it’s a rounding error. It’s upsetting to you, a comfortable western (maybe white) liberal because they’ve started killing a handful of people in the street here…but they’re killing tens of thousands there so…what’s it matter? If I vote for democrats (unchanged) I’m responsible for 75,000 deaths, if do not I’m responsible for 75,003?
Anyway, that’s all bullshit. I’m not responsible for these people.
Btw your description of the republicans (very openly on Israel side in this conflict and absolutely will not do anything to pressure Netanyahu) seems to apply to the democrats too. I don’t deny the republicans are worse though, so I’ll answer the question I think you’re asking. The reason I’m “choosing not to vote against” the slightly more bad party is that it involves voting for a genocide. That’s why. That’s it. I think I’ve been clear about that. I don’t think it’s complicated or hard to understand.
Maybe the pressure and desire to win will make the democrats change…I hope so…but in either case, if the genocide is carried on it will be without my endorsement, thanks.
I guess the main disagreement here is that voting for the Democrats is somehow voting for a genocide. Why do you think that they are openly supporting a genocide? It’s not like they were involved in starting the conflict. Maybe Biden could have done more in his time in office, but if you are not responsible for the issues Republicans cause, why are the Democrats responsible for Israel’s acs?
I guess you’re right though that I am a privileged European that are not really that impacted by the state of the world yet. Though it would have been nice with continued stability in the western world instead of a breakdown of our cross continental alliance. There is also something deeply unsettling about having a probably senile vindictive old man being at the head of the worlds largest military.
Even someone whose mind had turned to pudding like Biden's had could tell that what netanyahu was doing was and is genocide. The Leahy law is crystal clear on the subject. Biden broke the law to sell weapons for an ongoing genocide.
They are responsible for their own actions. Playing arms dealer for a genocide is reprehensible and they never should have done it.
There's nothing unsettling to you about genocide? Or is that just because under Biden, the genocide was limited to people who you prefer genocided?
If the democrats say "I will continue active military support for this genocide," what is there disagreement about when I say "voting for the democrats is voting for a genocide"?
The genocide of Palestinians is being conducted with weapons given to them by the U.S., democrat and republican alike (in all likelihood significantly more given to them by democrats, if only because they had more time). It's not that "Biden could have done more," it's that he could have not given them bombs to blow up Palestinians! He could have done less to enable genocide...ideally nothing? The democrats were and are unequivocal that the supply of arms to israel was and is a priority. They're responsible because they directly enable israel. I'm not responsible for what the democrats and republicans do because I don't do anything to support them.
And look, I'm not judging folks who vote for the democrats, we're all scared, fascism is fucked, maybe they can accept this "lesser of two evils" bullshit. I'm scared too...I also hate donald trump. I also hate ICE. I also think things were better for me and people I love under democrats (if it was better for "illegal" immigrants or palestinians, it's a matter of degree and not kind - obama and biden also used ice to unjustifiably put human beings in concentration camps - in terms of ice detention biden was much worse than Trump 1). I don't care if democratic voters acknowledge, admit, or accept that they vote for continued genocide of palestinians. They're welcome to say "I think this is the best choice I can make, even though there's lots I don't like about it." None of my business; please feel free to feel good about that. We could do with more feeling good in the world.
What I object to is their making these posts online saying I'm a bad person for not showing up to vote for the democrats; for not showing up to vote for continued genocide of Palestinians. Saying that I'm supporting fascism, that I'm the problem. Don't put that on me. The democrats could change at any time; it's their choice to make a vote for them a vote for genocide.
Fair. You are right that the "lesser of two evils" situation is fucking bullshit. To be fair I also think you are also right that a lot of Democrats are on Israels side... but I also think that the Democrats is more splintered internally. Like I would have a hard time seeing any Replibicans joining a free Palestine protest, but I'm sure it's a lot more popular among Democrat voters.
I also wish that the US, and more countries around the world, would sanction Israel, and they should have done so long ago.
I do not agree that sitting out is the right choice though, and when the choice is between Trump and literally anyone else I think that the lesser evil is clear. You even say yourself that things were better for you before Trump, and I absolutely think that Trump is the worst choice for Palestine. I mean didn't he literally attack Kamala during the campaign for even a weak protest against Netanyahu? Not to mention him straight up joining Israel in the war against Iran.
I agree the democrats are splintered internally. i think they need to experience a crisis and hopefully some decent people can come out on top. I honestly couldn't believe Trump 1 wasn't a sufficient crisis...the ghouls at the top are resilient I guess...
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, and poo-poo your decision (or...hypothetical decision I guess, given that you don't vote in teh US) to vote for democrats, but I think asking this may help you see what I'm talking about if you don't: you wish the government would do something about palestine but will vote for them even if they don't do something...so what good are your wishes?
I think it's a bit silly to imagine Kamala wouldn't have invaded Iran, she was vocally hawkish about Iran; she was always going on about how Iran was America's greatest adversary and must be stopped at all costs and it would be her top priority. Oh she's singing a different tune now, of course, but look for what she was saying in 2024.
Okay, I slept on it, and I think this may help explain why I think it's ludicrous to blame individual voters for not choosing the "lesser of two evils" when each of the "evils" is itself a moral agent. I'm sure you'll find this analogy doesn't fit your mental model, but it fits mine very well so if you're trying to understand where folks like me are coming from (and I think you are), see if you can try it on for size.
Sophie has two children, Eva (8) and Jan (11), with the same life-expectancy. Eva is a sweet child, very kind. Jan's a brat...a bit of a jerk, with a cruel streak. Anyway, two Nazis with guns are arguing "I am Ralph and I wish to kill your younger daughter. This is Dirk and he wishes to kill your older boy. You may choose!" Sophie chooses for Ralph to kill Eva, or Sophie refuses to choose and Ralph loses patience before Dirk and, kills Eva. Later, the hand-wringing liberals berate Sophie for not choosing to have the older daughter killed "Jan is a worse person and has five fewer years left to live, Sophie! It's OBVIOUSLY the worse choice. Why would you choose R? How COULD you? I hope you live with that for the rest of your days! If you had chosen D instead, things would have been better."
Does that illustrate my point? It's obviously the nazis that are to blame. If either of them was decent they'd die trying to kill as many on their own side as possible, or at the very least fuck off and leave everyone alone. Blaming Sophie is absurd whether she chose or didn't choose. The hand-wringing liberals are probably right, Jan is probably a shithead (hearing his mom acquiesce to the murder of his sister probably won't have helped), and voting D probably would have been a bit better. But like...shut the fuck up, hand-wringing liberals? Maybe no children needed to be murdered, actually, and maybe Sophie's choice is not something to focus on here?
You're acting as though Biden was just handing Netanyahu a loaded gun unprompted. This is not the case; there were preexisting trade deals and treaties with Israel that were being honored. That's it. Democrats didn't want to slap a close ally by shutting down an agreement that was already signed. It's a shitty decision, but it's more complex than just being all-in on genocide.
The Leahy Law means nothing to genocide apologists.
(we'll leave aside for a minute the extra 18 billion that biden did hand over unprompted. The preexisting trade deals were for something on the order of 3.8 billion)
No it's not more complicated. Don't arm a genocide.
If your friend strapped on a swastika arm band and started goose-stepping around, you wouldn't slap them? Slap them! Shame them! Stop them! (I'm not sure how to work into the analogy that your friend has already killed tens of thousands of children) In the analogy i guess you had a pre-existing arrangement to give the guy some of your old guns. But now he's a genocidal maniac...you still give him the guns? Just don't instead. Let him sue you or whatever. Like...obviously.