It's much less traumatic when you actually can do something and are punished for not doing it, than outright being punished for your biology. Very sick.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 8 points 1 week ago

You know that story about monkeys with a ladder, where they always beat up any monkey that tries to climb it, without even knowing why? Feels like society as a whole is that and neurodivergents are the monkeys that try to climb

[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

I think it's also that we only define someone as neurodivergent if they've been traumatized otherwise you're just a spicy normal person.

"Neurodivergence" and mental disorders are inherently only defined when they make it difficult to be in society.

[–] chaotic_ugly@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No offense but this is a very self-centered and immature viewpoint. Trauma is a fact of human existence. Just because the world is designed for neurotypicals doesn't mean the world isn't still traumatic for them. Case in point: trauma for physical assault, sexual abuse, loss of a loved one, severe injury, cancer, losing a job (and the avalanche that can start).

None of us know what goes on behind closed doors.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's traumatic for both but it's possibly moreso the case for neurodivergent people. They face all of the things you mentioned and more things that neurotypical people dont.

[–] chaotic_ugly@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What you're saying seems obvious but I don't think it's as simple as that. However, @stepan@lemmy.cafe said "somehow manage to ignore it". I don't think anyone ignores trauma in the way this implies. Unaddressed trauma is a ticking time bomb, period.

Trauma comes in all shapes and sizes. When you get into the weeds, the word actually becomes useless on its own. What becomes important is the type, source, and severity of the trauma. When comparing one group to another, circumstances play just as large of a role. For example:

Neurodivergents are much less likely to have romantic relationships, and the odds are even worse of them having children. Thus, they experience trauma related to rejection, loneliness, shame and unfulfilled evolutionary drives (among other things) at a much higher rate than neurotypicals. However, they experience the trauma of miscarriage, abortion, loss of a child, divorce, death of a spouse, and spousal abuse at a much lower rate than neurotypicals.

Are there a whole slew of things unique to neurodivergents that are compounded by societal or cultural incompatibilities (bullying, social rejection, invalidation, etc.) that neurotypicals will likely never understand? Absolutely. Do neurodivergents have much higher rates of suicide in adulthood than neurotypicals? Yes. Do these have anything to do with whether or not neurotypicals are seemingly better at getting-by because they ignore their trauma? No. They're better at getting-by because the world is built for them. But that doesn't mean they don't live in a prison of their own.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I didn't say neurotypicals are better at getting by because they ignore their trauma or that they live in a utopia, I said the world is generally less traumatic for neurotypical people.

[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I think the whole conversation is muddied because we tend to only identify neurodivergent people after they have been traumatized, not always but people tend to only seek help and diagnosis after they have had major troubles. Literally part of the DSM criteria for diagnosis is that the neurodivergence has to give the person issues when they try to function in society.

It's a catch-22 when you say the world is built for neurotypical people because neurodivergence is partially defined as someone for whom the world isn't built for.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Yeah there's a bit of a selection bias going there as you pointed out (not sure if that's the exactly accurate term).