this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2026

62 points (94.3% liked)

Parenting

3326 readers

3 users here now

A place to talk about parenting.

Be respectful of others' parenting decisions.

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

Tot@lemmy.world

Babies learn to deceive before they can talk, new study finds | Tactics used include denial, feigning deafness, and hiding things (www.the-independent.com)

submitted 3 days ago by new_otters_raft@piefed.ca to c/parenting@lemmy.world

31 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

From Wikipedia:

While much research has been done on infants, theory of mind develops continuously throughout childhood and into late adolescence as the synapsesin the prefrontal cortex develop. The prefrontal cortex is thought to be involved in planning and decision-making. Children seem to develop theory of mind skills sequentially. The first skill to develop is the ability to recognize that others have diverse desires. Children are able to recognize that others have diverse beliefs soon after. The next skill to develop is recognizing that others have access to different knowledge bases. Finally, children are able to understand that others may have false beliefs and that others are capable of hiding emotions.

Edit: So, modelling a wrong state of the world in other agents apparently forms at 4, according to this review:

Fundamental developmental changes happen at around age 4, when new conceptual structures emerge. This ‘4 year revolution’ marks the onset of a fully fledged meta-representational ToM. In the course of this major transition, children gain the ability to succeed in a clus-ter of tasks that all require meta-representation. Among these are false-belief tasks, often considered a litmus test of mature ToM. These tasks explicitly require children to ascribe a subjective mis-representation to another agent and explain/predict their actions accordingly. In the most well known version, the child sees that another agent puts an object into one box and then the object is transferred to another box in the agent’s absence (Fig. 3a). The critical test question asked of the child is where the agent believes the object is or where the agent will search for the object39. Children younger than four systemati-cally answer incorrectly; they say that the agent thinks the object is where it really is and accordingly say that the agent will search in the second box. However, from around age 4, children succeed at the task by indicating that the agent will search in the first box.

Edit2:
But I'm sure your child was a criminal mastemind schooling your ass at chess five minutes after they enacted a cunning plan of tricking their way out of the womb. /s ... if you even have a child.

[–] Cypher@aussie.zone 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Speaking of understanding the state of information and when it became available to others, do you think the Wikipedia article might need to be updated based on new research findings?

I will wait until the research is replicated but based on my 3 year old son’s behaviour I’m going to say that yes, children start attempting to deceive before 4 years old.

He’s been hiding biscuits and other treats he knows he shouldn’t have since well before he was 2.

So maybe you’re relying on outdated information, maybe you’re biased about your own child, or maybe your child is a little delayed.

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Speaking of understanding the state of information and when it became available to others, do you think the Wikipedia article might need to be updated based on new research findings?

You didn't read the review I posted, did you?

I will wait until the research is replicated but based on my 3 year old son’s behaviour I’m going to say that yes, children start attempting to deceive before 4 years old.

Yes, of course your anecdotal evidence beats scientific consensus. Everything that's matching your preconceived beliefs is true. Everything else "needs to be replicated first". /s (even though I shared a review, not a singular study)

He’s been hiding biscuits and other treats he knows he shouldn’t have since well before he was 2.

Occam's razor would rather suggest learned patterns (if I put these things that I like here, my parent won't shout at me), rather than consensus in developmental science being wrong.

Are you sceptical of climate change as well?

So maybe you’re relying on outdated information, maybe you’re biased about your own child, or maybe your child is a little delayed.

The review was from 2022. "Biased" in what way exactly (my child doesn't exhibit "deceptive behavior")? And diagnosing the children of strangers on the internet with developmental disorders (or just suggesting as such) is something only an arrogant asshole would do. Sorry, I don't make the rules.

[–] Cypher@aussie.zone 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Science and scientific consensus are not set in stone, that you continue to reject new information only demonstrates your lack of understanding of the scientific method.

You asked if I was a parent and I elaborated. I don’t require any anecdotal evidence… the research findings are literally what is being discussed here.

Clearly you can’t cope with a reality where your child would attempt to deceive you. Their teenage years are going to be rather enlightening for you.

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

that you continue to reject new information only demonstrates your lack of understanding of the scientific method.

Did I miss something? Did you actually supply any "new information", other than your anecdotal evidence?

Before you accuse me of being close-minded, you should probably supply some actual data for my mind to be open to.

I don’t require any anecdotal evidence

Why did you supply it, then?

Clearly you can’t cope with a reality where your child would attempt to deceive you.

Adding "clearly" doesn't make any of your jumping to conclusions any less ludicrous. Stop trying to psychoanalyse strangers on the internet. That's what we here consider "dickish behaviour".

Their teenage years are going to be rather enlightening for you.

What? I said that you need a theory of mind that's advanced enough to deceive someone and that this stage of ToM comes at around four. Suggesting that I think that my child woudn't keep secrets from me as a teenager implies that I think that they'll never develop a ToM (which would be a severe mental disability). And where did I claim that?

This article isn't about teenagers, anyway.

[–] Cypher@aussie.zone 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Did I miss something

Reading the article apparently

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I read the article. That wasn't a study. That was a survey where parents self-reported for their children. Hardly a study that has any scientific merit.

Tat's part of science, too: Validate if the applied methods where actually worth anything. And aurvey of parents is not how you ro developmental science.

[–] Cypher@aussie.zone 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

https://research-information.bris.ac.uk/en/publications/the-early-deception-survey-eds-its-psychometric-properties-in-chi/

I did say I’d wait for replication but it is absolutely research. Again you fail to understand the scientific method.

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 days ago

You fail to understand quality standards in science.