516
Human Rights Watch says Israel used white phosphorus in Gaza, Lebanon
(www.reuters.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
516 points (93.3% liked)
World News
38965 readers
2223 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
If they actually want to commit genocide, why are they telling the population to leave the dangerous areas, perform roof knocking, etc.?
They told like half of Gaza to clear out in 24 hours, that's well over a million people, it's literally impossible to accomplish that. It's to get deniability when killing civilians.
They also then bombed the evacuation route, lol. Mustache twirling evil.
So Israel wants to kill civilians in Gaza? How ludicrous! They must have been doing exactly that for all these years, every single day! I wonder what happened right now that their drive to kill civilians peaked so much! Palestinians are totally innocent and don't want to kill civilians in Israel though, right? This never happened, or did I miss anything?
Of course they don't. I think you're mistaking Hamas for the general palestinian population
That's only because hamas actively tries to be mistaken for general Palestinian population.
Then don't fall for it
Israel tries, as we can see. Hamas, on the other hand, doesn't care about whether it is military or citizens.
No... they don't actually. Using white phosphorus on a heavily populated city doesn't look like doing your best to pick out the good from the bad, it looks like killing everything that can die.
Want to use one example to win an argument? I could do the same: using a baby doll to try to convince the public that Palestinian babies are getting killed by Israel makes you look like a lying scum instead of a victim.
Bro that means you're literally trying to help Hamas
How exactly?
This is the exact mindset that led to the Internment of Japanese Americans, or the frequent racism against Muslims for years after 9-11(and still going on to this day). People from a place do no represent the place they're from, and a group of terrorists do not represent millions of people.
Come up with a better plan to stop a terrorist group in Gaza then? Without letting them proceed with their violence.
To give the illusion of escape.
Telling them to leave, but not actually letting them go...
Telling them to go to bomb shelters that don't actually exist...
Who is not letting them go to south Gaza? Certainly not Israel. Hamas does actually, because more victims are what they want, since it gives them more power.
Have you never seen a disaster movie? Have you never been stuck in traffic on a holiday weekend where lots of people are traveling? I can't imagine how it's possible that you think a million people are just going to pack up and move, all at once, in a 24 hour window, like that is in anyway a reasonable request. Especially after these people were cut off from from food, water, and fuel (you know, the stuff you need for traveling) almost a week ago. And have all those people go to an area where there isn't space, and still no food, water, or electricity. Common guy really?
Israel is not operating in good faith, that is abundantly clear. This warning is just for the record, so that after Israel commits genocide they can point to that warning and say it's the civilians fault for not leaving like we told them too.
Your probably right about Hamas motives. Fine. But what your ignoring is that the Israeli government views all Palestinians as subhuman, and they intend to exact revenge on all of the people. Hamas and Israel are both happy with Palestinian civilian casualties, but for different reasons. The only differences between them is one side basically admits it's a terrorist organization, while the other side benefits from the political and military support of the west, as well as people like you who are eager to make excuses for outright genocide. Remember, where here in the comments on an article about Israel using white phosphorus in a populated area which is a fucking war crime.
I don't know if they see them as sub human. What makes you think so? They know they are going to kill some, especially given how Hamas uses them as meat shields, and they are obviously accepting that. They still try to minimize the number with roof knocking etc.
That they accept civilian casualties should be the topic of the discussion, not black and white nonsense like everywhere. If we look at history, the same happened in Germany in WW2. How to defeat such terrorists / evil states? Is it possible without killing innocent people? Holy fuck this is not something simple.
Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant:
https://twitter.com/MahaGaza/status/1711322657545765318
Interesting. I swear i've heard that "our victims are animals and not people" rhetoric before. Somewhere. Can't put my finger on it.
If anyone needs a hint: it's the Nazis. If you needed a hint for that, learn.
I mean, it's actually everyone who has ever wanted to do a genocide but yeah there's one group in particular. See, for example: https://www.npr.org/2011/03/29/134956180/criminals-see-their-victims-as-less-than-human
Both israelites and palestinians dislike each others, that is much a fact no need to debate.
Well, you generally don’t declare to the world you’re doing genocide. You ask for forgiveness, not permission.
That was not what I was asking. They avoid killing them quite a bit, given the circumstances. Why would they do that if their goal was genocide?
Look up what plausible deniability is. The goal is genocide, but they can't just do genocide without pissing off the world. So they basically imprison 2.2 million people in a space the size of Seattle, destroy entire buildings, shoot unarmed people in Palestinian territory, bulldoze Palestinian homes or outright take them and give them to Israeli settlers. This naturally pisses people off. Hamas fires rockets in response. Israel blows even more shit up in response. They perpetuate the cycle put into motion when the UK stole Palestinian land and gave it to Israel.
Let's not get the sequence of events wrong. Israel faced existential threads from day one of declaring independence, where the surrounding states immediately attacked. There was and is no compromise for Palestine, they want to destroy Israel. That is their official goal, not some secret or conspiracy.
Palestine is not a prison because they are super nice people and Israel is evil. The issue is terrorism. Israel needs to deal with it some way. You can argue that there are better ways, certainly. And that Israel is doing a crap job, like US prisons.
What is Israel supposed to do now? What would your plan be? More than one out of every 10'000 of your fellow people just got murdered. That's like 46'000 people if it were the USA. That is the scale.
If we look at history, for example Nazis, do you think it was right to bomb Germany to the ground?
They have another, competing goal of getting cheap labor out of the Palestinians.
Well, you generally don’t declare to the world you’re doing genocide. You ask for forgiveness, not permission.
They told people to gather in the city center, and then they bombed the city center
There's reports of them bombing the exit corridor.
Source please.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-c8b4fc20e4fd2ef381d5edb7e9e8308c
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-airstrike-kills-women-children-fleeing-evacuation-route-northern-gaza-2023-10
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/14/gaza-civilians-afraid-to-leave-home-after-bombing-of-safe-routes
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-bombs-hit-only-exit-route-for-gaza-residents-4469430
And an eyewitness report: https://www.972mag.com/gaza-salah-al-din-road/
I didn't bother sourcing since this was all easy to find, but happy to provide.
Thank you kindly.
Hamas bombed the escape routes. They need their human shields.
Source? Or is that just a hunch that you're presenting as fact?
In fact, I'd be wary of saying anything without "reportedly" heavily attached in this kinda situation. There is so much propaganda and misinformation that stating anything as fact is dangerous.
I don't know of one trust worthy source. But you can start reading from here. As this is a very hot topic, follow links, read edit history and discussion. If you can, also read in different languages.
So you're just talking out your ass and presenting as fact.
I asked for sources for your claim because I couldn't find a single source saying it was Hamas, while multiple claimed Israel.
I'm the one actually doing research and being responsible about how I discuss this topic. You presented as fact something you couldn't provide a single source for. I said "there's reports" and was able to provide a handful of reports when asked.
I've read multiple books on the conflict, I know pretty detailed history going back to just prior to 1917. I don't need a wikipedia article that goes back less than 20 years, thanks.
How about if you can, don't present complete bullshit as fact? For starters, at least. Then maybe you can get on some goofy-ass multilingual high horse 🤦♂️
They stopped roof knocking last week.
Telling people to leave when there is nowhere to go, Egypt is refusing to open their border and I doubt Israel is going to open theirs, isn't not wanting to commit genocide: it's a way to save face, to say "well they didn't evacuate so it's their problem."