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Heat pumps can't take the cold? Nordics debunk the myth
(techxplore.com)
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this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
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Hell yeah, we've got a heat pump and we're in Canada where it can get to -40°C (which is coincidentally also -40°F) and that thing works like a beast. Fortunately we also have the cheapest electricity in North America so the decision was easy.
Electricity monopoly in the US = they can price gouge, and this is literally the only reason I installed a dual fuel system with a less efficient heat pump. The Eversource electricity price hikes last year probably would have meant I couldn't afford to heat my home in the worst parts of winter here in Massachusetts.
This is how policies are killing the planet. Socialize electric utilities, upgrade the electric grid, subsidize the use of electric heat pumps so they're actually affordable for all end users, and of course more people would adopt them.
As it is, I run my heat pump as much as I can, which is like 9 months a year. Better than only having gas heat at least.
The US has some of the lowest electricity prices in the world though. Only a couple pennies per kWh higher than Canada. And MUCH lower than pretty much all of Europe.
In 2020 (last year I could find from Canada specifically) Canada averaged 11.25¢ per kWh. The US averaged 13.04¢. The UK averaged 21.91¢, France averaged 19.91¢, Finland 20.56¢, Spain 28.77¢, and Germany 33.39¢.
https://www.electricity.ca/knowledge-centre/the-grid/customer/electricity-rates/
It’s more that Canada uses a LOT of hydro power which is cheap.
This is the problem I'm facing though:
https://www.wbur.org/news/2022/11/18/eversource-western-massachusetts-electricity-rates-hike-2022-2023-winter
Our electric rates went from 18¢ to 25¢ last winter with no warning. It's not that our prices are particularly high for now, but rather that they're unreliable. I didn't feel secure installing an electric only system because of this, even though I could have gotten a more efficient system. The dual fuel allows me to toggle between the two as needed, which feels like the safer option for the next 15-30 years that I expect to have this thing.
Sucks because I'd really prefer to have one of those Mitsubishi hyperheat systems. But even with the less efficient system, I'm running in heat pump only mode in the to 0⁰C nights we're seeing right now and it's fine.
You made the most sensible choice and are dramatically reducing you gas use, so you should feel good about that! I have a new Mitsu hyper heat (Colorado here), but recognize it wasn't the most cost effective system and ultimately just really wanted it. It's bonkers how well it work though. We've only hit 10F this last weekend but it didn't skip a beat. Looking forward to -10F. For most people, keeping a gas furnace for a few weeks a year, and using a smaller heat pump than you would spec if only using a HP makes a lot of sense. You're not missing much (and some would argue that peak winter demand in an electrifying world is a big problem that has backup gives us more time to solve anyway).
Yeah, you did exactly what I wanted to do haha. I just love the Mitsu products so much. I had Mitsu mini-splits when I lived down in the Caribbean, and I'm a complete convert. I did install a supplemental Mitsu mini-split in the largest room in my house, which actually is so god damned efficient, it reduces the load on the central heat pump. The two combined get me through a really reasonable portion of the year. Those things are just amazing.
What's your heat pump? I've been looking into them and I can't find one that's willing to say it works past about -15.
The Mitsubishi Hyper heat can work down to -13F, The absolutely best resource I’ve found for heat pump research is the NEEP database which will you give you actual BTU outputs at various ambient temperature readings: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product_list/
 Also worth considering a geothermal heat pump depending on your geography, as then you have a guarantee of efficiency all year round
Second the NEEP database. I'd just add that the lowest temps listed here aren't the actual equipment minimums - each model has a cutoff temp where it will literally shit the bed (except ground source of course). For my mistu hyper heat, it's -26F. Capacity will keep dropping after -13F though (where it's still at like 80% I think).
Thanks for the website!
Housing, food, car insurance and alcohol are all pretty expensive in Canada
So...living. Got it.
Cellphone plans, internet plans, seriously look into the cost of living in Canada.
Telecoms have a stranglehold here, our cell phone and internet prices are some of the highest in the world (if not THE highest).
They also own some news and media companies which only makes it harder to bring about change
Wine and cheese, damn it's expensive compared to Europe!!!
Electricity is also pretty expensive everywhere in Canada other than quebec
Linus (tech tips) said Vancouver BC has cheap electricity bc it’s all hydro.
Yep, BC and Quebec are both hydro
https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/biggest-sources-of-electricity-by-state-and-province/
This seems accurate, but I haven't verified
May vary by municipality but BC is the 3rd cheapest in Canada
...And it's like 50-75% more expensive than Quebec
Manitoba has some of the lowest rates in the country
Yeah, it's the 2nd lowest, but Quebec is still dramatically cheaper
Tim Horton. It's cheap, but not cheap.
Can you just start saying "America" that way it includes south America and Central America, also?
When the context is involving climate, electricity rates, and money, there is little overlap between all of the Americas. It makes sense to tighten it down to the top half (more similar climates, etc) or bottom half (electricity rates for example). Canada has the wealth and the electricity rates to make heat pumps extremely viable, and for the most part climate too. The USA shares a lot of this. The Central/South Americas do not overlap like this with Canada.
But that wouldn't be accurate because there are South American countries with even cheaper electricity than here, so it's only the cheapest in North America.
Also not to be too pedantic but central America isn't technically a continent, and it all falls under North America anyways.