1076
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
1076 points (99.0% liked)
News
23625 readers
4159 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
It's entirely irrelevant.
Name one industry with security theater like air travel. Name one industry with lobbying like politics. Name one industry with subsidization like agriculture.
The tipping situation is a product of a problematic history, but it is what it is. The entire system is based on it. Saying something is unique has nothing to do with the process to change it.
Security Theatre is an overreaction to a single event. Most of it can also be trashed. Also, the air travel industry didn't have security theatre for nearly a century.
Lobbying? Very similar to shareholders and boards of directors. Other governments also have varying amounts of lobbying, so it's definitely not intrisic to the system.
Lots of industries get massive subsidies: Oil & Gas, Aerospace, Healthcare, Nuclear, Research, Energy, Automotive, Semiconductors, Real Estate, IT, many big corporation have squeezed a subsidy out just by threatening to leave a state! To some extent, every public service is a subsidy, just where the government owns the 'company'. Some governments (probably) don't do subsidies, but lots do, and one could argue that some system like subsidies is necessary for a well functioning government & country.
However, I agree that the uniqueness of a practice says very little about how good it ultimately is for anything.
My point has nothing to do with whether a practice is good or not. It's about how deeply entrenched the practice is, and the practical complexities of uprooting the practice. Bad practices still require significant consideration in undoing.
My point is that "we should do away with ___" is an impotent sentiment by itself. Who is we? How are "we" going to actually do it? What does the transition period look like? What are the consequences? These are questions that, pragmatically, must be taken into consideration when implementing any large change, totally independent of any value judgement of that change.
I'm starting to think people on this website are detached from reality
Most websites, I've found. Lots of strong opinions about nebulous ideals, without a much experience, context, or practical rationality to support them
They are.
The events industry. Do you really think those bag checks do anything with how quickly they “look” in your bag before going into a venue?
I did one; now you do yours.
Again, this "argument" is totally irrelevant, but:
If that counts the same as TSA, then hair/nail stylists, massage therapists, valets, Uber (and taxi and limo) drivers, hotel housekeepers and concierges are all traditionally tipped.
But again, that doesn't matter. The system is what it is. Changing it is an option, but that does have practical considerations associated with it.
They are tipped, yes, but no NOT rely on tips for their wages. No other industry pays under minimum wage and expects me, the consumer, to subsidize employee’s wages.
Try again.
Then no, venue security is not the same as TSA. Stop moving your goalposts. It's one or the other: either degree matters and venue security isn't the same as TSA so uniqueness of a scenario isn't important, or degree doesn't matter and every traditionally tipped worker is the same so it's not unique in the first place. Either way your position crumbles.
And for at least the third time: your entire argument is pointless and irrelevant in the first place. Things are as they are. Saying "It shouldn't be this way!" doesn't change how it is.
Restaurants that eliminate tipping will go out of business in competition with those that don't. This is not a problem that can be solved by individual restaurant initiative. Stomping your feet and shouting that you shouldn't have to and it's not fair, without offering any actual effective course of action, is just embarrassing.
Answer the question then.
Name one other job (that isn’t in the food service industry) where the buyers subsidize the worker’s salary voluntarily. To the point where, without tips, the worker would NOT make minimum wage.
Name one even prime number other than 2. Name one flying mammal other than a bat. Name one Western country that doesn't use metric other than the US.
What point are you trying to make? This isn't some gotcha, you are making pointless statements. 2 is still prime, bats still fly, the US still doesn't use metric. Calling out a situation as being unique doesn't make it stop being what it is.
Answer the question then.
Name one other job (that isn’t in the food service industry) where the buyers subsidize the worker’s salary voluntarily. To the point where, without tips, the worker would NOT make minimum wage.
Unless you’re a bot or child, in which case I understand your deficiency in understanding the question.
https://slrpnk.net/post/5625534
You keep saying the same thing like it's relevant.
You still haven't named another even prime, flying mammal, or Western nation that doesn't use metric.
Let's just focus on the last one: why should I have to learn yards and Fahrenheit and gallons when EVERY other Western country uses metric? No other Western country forces their children to learn that system, to the point you can't understand standard signs and measures without it.
It's the same argument.
Answer the question then.
Name one other job (that isn’t in the food service industry) where the buyers subsidize the worker’s salary voluntarily. To the point where, without tips, the worker would NOT make minimum wage.
Are you a child or a bot?
Answer the question.
Name one other western country (that isn’t the United States) where the residents have to use the imperial system. To the point where, without the imperial system, the resident would NOT be able to understand posted signs and measures.
When you answer my question, you'll have the answer to yours. Asking the same question again, or refusing to answer mine, will be proof that you can't read, or can't think, or both.
Already answered yours.
Night club.
Your turn buddy.
Nope, wrong. We established that's not the same: if other tipped positions don't count the same as servers, then night club security doesn't count the same as TSA. That's why we moved to a more direct question:
Name one other western country (that isn’t the United States) where the residents have to use the imperial system. To the point where, without the imperial system, the resident would NOT be able to understand posted signs and measures.
I'm assuming you're a child, because bots are better than this now. Unless you're one of those old 90s era bots. Either way, not worth consideration.
Name one other job (that isn’t in the food service industry) where the buyers subsidize the worker’s salary voluntarily. To the point where, without tips, the worker would NOT make minimum wage.
Bad bot
Not a bot.
Name one other job (that isn’t in the food service industry) where the buyers subsidize the worker’s salary voluntarily. To the point where, without tips, the worker would NOT make minimum wage.
Only (old and outdated) bots have reading comprehension this bad and comment the same irrelevant points repeatedly, after being shown repeatedly that those points are irrelevant.
It would be profoundly embarrassing for you if you aren't a bot, you would have to be literally mentally disabled to continue as you have. To preserve my faith in the baseline intellectual capabilities of humanity, I will continue to make the graceful assumption that no-one could be so mentally deficient.
Bad bot.
Not a bot.
Answer the question. Oh right, you can’t. If you could have, you would have already. You got pissy when I answered one of yours so you moved the goalposts, dug your heels in, and are now being obstinate.
The standard playbook of the republicans; Gaslight, Obstruct, Project.
I’m done wasting my time on you. Enjoy being wrong.
https://www.dailydot.com/news/25-percent-tip-at-grocery-checkout/
Bad bot
I answered yours, you moved the goalposts, so I shifted my question to match your goalposts.
The standard playbook of Republicans: cheat the working class out of every dime possible. Trump doesn't pay his contractors after they do work for him either.
And since you can’t Google, Liberia
Since you can't read