865
Veterans Burn Their Uniforms at Vigil for US Airman Aaron Bushnell
(uk.news.yahoo.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 29 Feb 2024
865 points (97.2% liked)
News
23232 readers
3435 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Mike Prysner is fucking based.
Most y'all would call him a tankie and shoo him out of here.
Does he believe in the state using force to kill and brutally suppress its citizens to enforce their rule and limit democratic freedoms?
Because you can be a leftist and not support that shit by holding positive views of the Soviet Union or China. We don’t call those people tankies, we call tankies tankies.
PSL is ML, so yeah, unfortunately.
Edit: let's talk for a minute about some really important history here. Leninists have ridden anarchists to victory then turned around and murdered them, starting with Lenin himself. Makhnovists saved the Red Army from being destroyed by the white. The Soviet Revolution was originally an anarchist one until it was betrayed by the Bolsheviks, who murdered anarchists from the beginning.
Even Trotskyists need to be held accountable for this, since Trotsky himself was responsible for crushing dissent at Kronostat.
Aaron Bushnell was an anarchist. He was an anarchist service member. MLs honoring his sacrifice need to face the fact that their ideological ancestors did murder people like him for their own resistence.
MLs try to take over anarchist actions even today. PSL has tried to co-opt actions that my anarchist comrades have organized. They are overwhelmingly ineffective, which is why the feed so much on anarchist energy and appropriate anarchist actions all the time. Tankies use anarchists to get attention for themselves and dispose of us when we become inconvenient.
And if you can't honestly acknowledge the dissonance between the history of appropriation and oppression of people who you openly acknowledge are on the same side as you, then you don't really want a more free and equitable world, you just want your cult to wear the boots that are on everyone else's neck.
So yeah, fuck tankies. This is a great action. Don't let them appropriate it.
Hell yeah. What an awesome comment. I appreciate you!
To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: "I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No Viet Cong ever called me the N-word".
Hitler never tried to kill me based on my ethnicity but I’ve still got a problem with him.
You can and should oppose fascism and authoritarianism without being the targeted victim.
Ali was making a statement about his refusal to be sent to fight in Vietnam. That soldiers are individuals, and that they have more in common with each other than they do with their own leadership.
I mean, yeah fascism and its leadership must be opposed in all its forms, but the average German soldier in WW2 wasn't any more brainwashed than the average American soldier is now.
The armies of the enemy are not our enemy. They are distant parts of ourselves, ruled over by wicked masters just as we are.
And that relates to being critical of and not supporting authoritarian regimes how?
It's a warning, that in fighting fascism we must always remember that the enemy is not the people to avoid becoming the oppressor.
Me: Because you can be a leftist and not support that shit by holding positive views of the Soviet Union or China.
Them: To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: “I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No Viet Cong ever called me the N-word”.
You: It’s a warning, that in fighting fascism we must always remember that the enemy is not the people to avoid becoming the oppressor.
That seems like a very unrelated tangent you've gone on here?
Unless you're trying to argue that the people who push for and actively want those oppressive regimes are not the enemy? Which is so utterly ridiculous that I don't think that's your point.
Don't worry about it, my ADHD-ass brain always has trouble explaining these intuitive leaps.
Actually, that's precisely it.
They might not be innocent, being complicit or even active participants in the oppression, but they are also victims of the regime as well. Those people are not the enemy, but the enemy's base of support.
Fascism builds its base with false promises of prosperity and blames its own ills on outsiders. Fighting them directly risks validating the regime's propaganda and making martyrs to their cause, but subverting that base erodes the regime's support and builds your own at the same time. It's easy because fascists love to broadcast their crimes and any prospefity that can be found never falls far from the top of the hierarchy.
Most tankies live in cushy western countries going on about how great Russia/China are, the only thing they're victims of is their own stupidity.
Are you saying you have no issue with China because you aren't a Uigher?
Leftism should be accompanied by the belief that no matter where someone is born or with what traits, they should be able to live a happy and comfy life. No government should be exempt from persecuting people. A Tankie says "well, hold on" if it's a government they like.
You're not describing "Leftism". You're describing "Consumerism". The leftist struggle for a free and equitable society does not guarantee happiness or comfort. It guarantees a worker's right to the fruits of one's labor.
And sending troops abroad to butcher civilians and burn down their homes does nothing to accomplish either.
Again, it is absolutely crazy to see to "tankie" conflated with "please stop bombing people".
How the hell did you get "a Tankie says to stop bombing people" from "a Tankie excuses genocides if they like the country"?
My whole point is that there's certain countries where they don't say "please stop bombing people" and make excuses defending the country instead.
It's very telling however that your thought of people being able to live happily and freely no matter where they're born or with what traits is "consumerism".
Fascists constantly telling me that we need to bomb the village in order to save it, and if you don't support napalming My Lai, you're with the Terrorists.
Name. That. Country.
Its Utopian to believe people simply stop having problems under a particular ideological system. Capitalists and Communists alike need to deal with droughts and pandemics and supply chain failures and climate change.
Neither system guarantees people happiness and freedom.
But recognizing ecological limits means you're a "tankie"? While devouring seed corn because it makes you happy is... what? Real Leftism?
I get the feeling we are terribly misunderstanding each other and talking past the other. I think I see your point about there being problems in any system, but I think it behooves us to strive for the ideal, even if it's unattainable.
In general, Russia tends to be the country that tankies make excuses for. Instead of condemning the actual country invading Ukraine and bombing civilians, they'll say it's Ukraine's fault for wanting to join NATO, for instance.
If you disagree with that thinking, then good. You aren't a Tankie. There were a number of "leftist" thinkers at the outset of the war who blamed the West and NATO for Russia invading, instead of Russia. And some still insist the bloodshed has to stop by Ukraine suing for peace, instead of Russia leaving.
In Ukraine war, Tankies suggest Russia is just defending itself and its "spheres of influence". It's not dissimilar from your example. If you don't understand Russia's "very reasonable" response of bombing Ukraine to prevent it from joining NATO, you're called a Western imperialist, unironically.
The other main example is with China and the Uighurs. Detaining a cultural group in concentration camps and forcibly reeducating them and erasing their culture is typically seen as genocide, but with China you'll hear Tankies make excuses that it's to stop terrorism and that is all Western propaganda and there's nothing suspicious going on at all.
Once again, if that isn't you, you aren't a Tankie. I'd argue tankies actually have a concerning natural alliance with fascists.
Moderates are eager to paint leftists as Tankies when that isn't the case, I agree with you there. That doesn't mean the term has no meaning nor utility however.
Holy shit that is him, he's not even mentioned in the article.
I only call people tankies if they support tankie shit like killing everyone with a college degree, or glasses