If any illegal content would be posted there, let us know. If it's 1 community, we can block the community. If it's all over the place, we can defederate. But I see defederation as a last resort. If there are other ways to keep our server safe I prefer that.
Thank you for taking the conservative approach to moderating instead of nuking from orbit.
They did make a poll and then later announced they'll be banning underage anime art and IRL imagery . But not art of cute/short characters because it's impossible to discern if they're over 18 or not. It's the whole Pokemon debate all over again.
I think it's worth pointing out that legality depends on jurisdiction and while it's obviously a requirement to obey the your (and other admins') local laws, it's not quite so clear-cut when it comes to other countries.
Eg. It's illegal to criticize Hong Kong's government under their National Security Law. But I think we'd (the community here, not just you and me) agree that lemmy.world has absolutely no obligation to follow that law.
2 weeks ago: Lemmy is so amazing, create an account anywhere and you can access everything! It's like forums but better!
Now: defederate >:(
Ugh. I get the concern in scenarios like this, but in the last couple of days every instance has calls to defederate from this or that. Eventually it's just gonna be small islands of "very compatible" instances.
Well, guess it's back to making separate accounts for everything!
That's a bit dramatic. Most of the big instances will stay federated with most of the others.
Some topics that are just too intolerable to the general population will get isolated. Pedo content, Nazis, etc. if you feel you need to make a second account to go participate in those things, well you do you I guess...
Well, Beehaw already defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, a few fairly normal instances don't federate with lemmy.ml, even more don't federate with lemmigrad, calls to defed from lemmynsfw were there from its very first day, never mind burggit.
Like, okay I get it that it's not a drop-in Reddit replacement and instance owners can do whatever they like - but I still wonder where it leads at the end.
Well lemmy.ml is run by pretty much the same people as lemmygrad. Before the Reddit drama .ml was filled with mostly the same kind of politics. They chose the .ml extension to signify Marxism-Leninism I believe. So it's not that surprising that some have blocked them.
But anyway, where does it lead? We're just in flux. Everyone is figuring everything out. Instances will stabilize. Norms will be established. Everything will be fine. Some pockets will get isolated, but I believe the vast majority will stay together. Once in a while there will be some drama, some splits and spats. It'll be fine, people will shift. Balance will return.
Defederation leads to echo chambers. I've certainly had enough of that in Reddit!
With the idea of self-hosted decentralized servers also comes a responsibility. With sites like reddit, the corporation behind it is responsible for everything, including moderating potentially illegal content. With lemmy, this is on the individual servers to handle.
I think it's a bit silly to get all dramatic and say stuff like "Well, guess it’s back to making separate accounts for everything!" just because instances allowing potentially illegal cp are to be de-federated..
I wish there was a way to exclude the whole instance from my personal feed without requiring admins to defederate it. Right now I have to play whackamole with new communities popping up. And it's not just the NSFW stuff.
I'm taking the opposite approach, that is, instead of blocking what I don't want to see, I join what I do want to see.
Blocking is not effective if you want a "curated" feed IMO, new communities are being created all the time, especially now that many are migrating over from reddit, you might never "end" blocking stuff.
OP post is a different situation though, that kind of content is illegal in many countries (especially EU), just being federated with them could pose a legal risk, it's not just stuff some people don't want to see.
I've been browsing through new as a way of finding communities to join. The NSFW stuff in that feed is unideal but easy enough to ignore, whereas content that could send me to jail is a whole different ballgame.
You can make this even nicer, just originally join instance that doesn't federate with nsfw, and then make another account to lemmynsfw instance, and add both of them to client. You can with one click jump between accounts at least in jerboa.
This makes a nice experience to control what you see and when
You can turn off the ability to see NSFW posts in your profile. It's not ideal since some NSFW isn't porn, but I'd rather miss a handful of things than spend all day blocking porn and fetish subs
I have always hated "NFSW" being such a large blanket. NFSW does not exclusively mean "porn".
As a federation shouldn't we start with Diplomacy? This is a prime example. We didn't wait long enough, and it was clarified rather quickly.
Defederation should require more deliberation and unless an immediate emergency shouldn't there be other actions under consideration first.
They did post an update about it
Looks like its less about blatant loli/shota content and more about "characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage"
How and if that changes anyones feelings about it is up to them.
I don't care about drawings, there are no victims, but if it's illegal by law it poses a problem.
Its pretty much the same with lolli shit, most don't like it but it's not illegal where the server is hosted. If you don't want to see shit, block it yourself. You don't need a instance admin to do it for you, we aren't on reddit where everything has to be PC and advertising Friendly.
Why would we need to defederate? Just don't subscribe to their communities and you won't see their content
NOT true. There is an update for clarification: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826
Thats good to hear, will edit the OP to add it. I do think my post is a fair representation of the original update though.
im not a pedo 🫤🤷♂️ I thought loli meant for teen people like 18-25.
It feels like partitioning off the NSFW stuff is maybe not a bad idea. Seriously, this might be an area where having multiple Lemmy instances is a good thing. It’s still there, and accessible to anyone who wants it, but folks scrolling Lemmy at work don’t have to worry about something they don’t want to see at the moment showing up. Nobody is saying it can’t exist, but most people don’t have their porn in the same place as their regular reading! So why should it be included in the SFW instances?
You can simply not activate the "show nsfw" checkbox and you will never see that stuff in your feed
I think those countries should put the resources used to go after neckbeards fapping to drawings to investigate people trafficking real children.
UPDATE: The lemmynsfw admins posted an clarification here: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826. My original argument for defederating doesn’t stand any more.
Drawn a.k.a. not real and not obviously underage a.k.a. not attempting to depict illegal situations, doesn't seem like a problem.
Although I agree there should be more ways to filter instances, per user. A blacklist along with the whitelist that is subscription. Show local, show subscribed, show everything (except blacklisted).
Looking a bit they are struggling to come up with a comprehensive policy. Thats gonna be a giant pain in the ass. I wish them luck. In the meantime I'd have a bit of patience and just report anything that is illegal.
Note: admins can delete remote communities without having to block the whole instance.
If lemmy.world admins clicked on "remove" on the offending remote communities that would block them but keep access to the rest of the instance.
That said, I understand the concerns.
This would be preferable. There are some communities I follow over there I'd like to still have access too.
At least with jerboa you can turn off NSFW so you don't need to see it. Alternatively just stick to local or subscribed and you don't have to worry about seeing anything.
NSFW is an option in browser too.
Edit: They've made an update claiming it was bad English. https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826 - I think they should take a harder line but I will have to continue monitoring it to decide if I want to keep federating with them. Not a good look tho.
God damnit, I was glad there was an NSFW instance WHY did they have to go do some shit like this
Welp, as an instance admin I'm probably gonna have to defed them.
Those admins are fools. They say they're not into it, but don't want to prevent others from it.
Well guess what, it's like the Nazi bar thing. You can't just let them be. They're intolerable to most people so by not banning them your other customers will leave. Congratulations, you now run a Nazi bar.
I foresee most users on lemmynsfw leaving, and it basically just becoming a pedo site.
A quick glance at the post gave me the impression lots of people from that instance are against the change. I’d wait and see how things settle before defederating. Defederating is detrimental to lemmy/kbin growth, it should be a last resort approach.
The other issue is that lemmy.world users that subscribe to it will cause the content to be cached on this server too which could create issues for the admin.
Wow the potential for a /c/lemmydrama is already brewing with that admin's responses lol.
I see what they mean about petite/young looking people, but is this the hill they really want to die on? They're making proper moderation more difficult for themselves by splitting hairs.
With AI-generated images too this is a real minefield.
Honestly I'd rather we just de-federate from porn instances entirely, people can sign up there directly if they want that.
I wouldn't have any issue if:
1.) it were moderated at least semi-decently
2.) we got the option to hide NSFW communities from "All", while still keeping "show NSFW" on in our settings. Otherwise it's just really inconvenient to go to settings and flip that on and off every time you want to go to such a community or see a NSFW post that's not sexually explicit. They use the tag for other things too.
itt: being attracted to adult petite women is bad
sorry, adult petite women
Irrelevant of the moral issues that this poses, such content is illegal in many countries (e.g the UK).
As I commented before on this specific issue earlier, I think that this argues that lemmy/kbin really need a more-descriptive mechanism for classifying content than just "NSFW" or "not-NSFW".
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