I think that this is like wrapping a kid in bubble-wrap, though. And like, not in that "over-coddling" metaphorical sense, but much more literal - sure, the kid can't get scrapes if they fall off their bike, but the other kids are going to make fun of the kid wearing bubble wrap.

You don't necessarily want to give them an unrestricted mainline to the worst of the internet, but you don't want to overcorrect so hard that you're causing other problems.

As toxic as it is, as much as there's space for harms and bullying, or that the internet holds porn and violent content ... the internet and social media spaces are where a huge portion of kids social lives live, and barring them from participating in that will do one of two things - teach them to get sneaky in order to bypass the restriction, or force them into an 'outsider' role in their peer group. In the first, it's a lost cause and all you're doing is making it inconvenient without addressing the harms - and ensuring they can't talk to you about what comes from that space. In the latter, there are strong social and self-esteem costs associated with excluding your child from having a social life with other children - is it "better" for the parent to do the harm instead of the other children? Is it better for your relationship with that child, long-term, their trust in you, or your ability to support them?

The kid restricted to "dumb phone only, no internet, no apps" is the current generations' equivalent of that one kid that wasn't allowed to go to the park, or the mall, or hang out on the street - whatever any given past generation used as their youthful Third Place, where they could socialize and hang out separate from school and without adults actively supervising them. And it's never been great for the kid whose parents won't let them participate in the common social life that their peers have.

It's far more fruitful to give them age-appropriate education related to their use of and relationship with the internet and provide a controlled and supported introduction than it is to simply bar their access for several years. You're either stunting their social development in order to avoid harms to their social development (?!?!) or you're simply winding the proverbial rubber band tighter and tighter against an inevitable rebellion - at which point they're jumping in headlong without ever developing any sort of media literacy or social media savvy and never had a chance to build coping and resilience for whatever rabbit holes they're likely to fall into .

I totally get your thinking, and really thought this put and almost went that route. But she is 11, I want to see how she uses this stuff and have an active part in it and teaching her how to navigate because at this age there is no holding back. Maybe if all the kids had dumb phones that tracked location or something but it is not the world we live in. I pretty much agree with the comment below yours except on social media. I have a hard fucking no stop and I think, I can't be sure but really think, my kid gets why that is just so terrible. Thankfully we don't use it so it's easier to call that a cesspool. We'll aside from reddit and now lemmy 😉

I’ve heard this before about a billion things, it’s not a particularly useful take.

It wasn't really intended to be, as that is a larger conversation. But I didn't mean it the way I suspect you thought I did, in a boomer "tight pants and rock music are all of society's ills" way.

My take on it is that ever since corporations got away with prioritizing shareholder profits over everything else, the safety nets that kept families strong started to crumble. Parents had to work more hours, people were more stressed, neighborhoods became more distant, urban spread increased. Add that to hysteria over crime and we get parents that aren't able to raise kids and think schools can do it. No sense of community responsibility and no safety net of a village helping to raise the kids because everyone's at work and scared that someone's going to shoot or kidnap them. So you get generational radicalization with acting out behavior getting worse and worse.

Social media makes all this worse because it optimizes for engagement, and nothing gets engagement like misery and jealousy all while giving an illusion of actual socialization. COVID was gas added to this fire that has been burning for decades.

Break the problems down into their pieces and attack those things; IMO, like solving any big problem, that’s how we get through this.

I definitely agree there. Which is a challenge in and of itself. Like I said, this is a multi-pronged issue. It didn't get to where it is quickly and it won't get fixed quickly either. It will be a generational effort. And I don't think all the fix actions needed are agreed on or even known.

I think part of it will be strengthening neighborhoods and creating a sense of community and pride in it. Another part is allowing parents to actually parent and giving them the tools that their parents didn't pass on to them because they probably didn't have them either.

It's a large conversation to have.

There have been multiple times that my daughter has had emergencies at school that she was able to solve by calling us. I'm glad she has a phone. But she also uses it responsibly.