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submitted 8 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

Maryland House Democrats introduced a controversial gun safety bill requiring gun owners to forfeit their ability to wear or carry without firearm liability insurance.

Introduced by Del. Terri Hill, D-Howard County, the legislation would prohibit the “wear or carry” of a gun anywhere in the state unless the individual has obtained a liability insurance policy of at least $300,000.

"A person may not wear or carry a firearm unless the person has obtained and it covered by liability insurance issued by an insurer authorized to do business in the State under the Insurance Article to cover claims for property damage, bodily injury, or death arising from an accident resulting from the person’s use or storage of a firearm or up to $300,000 for damages arising from the same incident, in addition to interest and costs,” the proposed Maryland legislation reads.

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[-] olivebranch@lemmy.ca 13 points 8 months ago

Another right-wing bill that gives the rich power over poor, disguised as left-wing bill. All politicians in power are rich, which is why they always push for right-wing politics, democrat or republican, always end up against the working class. There is a good video about this.

[-] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If the statistics show what gun fanatics claim, that guns keep people safer, then our capitalist market will compete down to a very low price because it won't be expensive for the insurers. Econ 101.

[-] olivebranch@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

It keeps the rich safer from the working class to rebel against them. This bill only makes more of a gap and gives more power to the rich, over the poor.

[-] EatATaco@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

I think your position would have more bite if it was based solely on ownership, but it's about carry. If it gets to the point of rich people and poor people shooting at each other in the streets, it won't matter much what the law is on this and people will be bringing their guns out.

[-] olivebranch@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago

When black panters were around, they would just carry the weapons, to show that if some white nationalist attack, they will not just sit there. Now whenever cops see someone marching with a gun, to protect the union strike or whatever, they can just arrest them, without any shooting even occurring. While anyone backed by the rich, will be able to pass by police with AR 15 with no problem. Just imagine two groups that started as a peacful protest being face to face, while one group is heavily armed and other is not.

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[-] DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 months ago

That's my feeling too. I like the immediate thought about requiring insurance but thinking further I see the negatives too.

[-] mob@sopuli.xyz 12 points 8 months ago

I'm not very opinionated on guns tbh, but I do think this only makes it more difficult for poor people. I'm not sure I agree with that.

[-] endhits@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

That's the exact point of these bills. Don't ever assume that safety is the priority of these bills. They don't want the working poor to have rights.

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[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 10 points 8 months ago

Seems fair. If the risk is low, cost will be low. Let the free market decide, right?

[-] PopMyCop@iusearchlinux.fyi 6 points 8 months ago

It will be low. Super low. $300k is pocket change when the incidence for gun carriers to use them is extremely low. It's why we can constantly mock the tacti-cool warriors for thinking they need a gun on them at all times. Plus, the insurance company has way more flexibility in proving their client was not at fault in the incident compared to the shenanigans they have to pull now for car wrecks.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 5 points 8 months ago

It's hard to imagine a reasonable objection, then. I don't trust insurance companies very much, but if there's one thing they do well, it's associating risk with cost.

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[-] rekabis@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago

This is a lot like insuring a vehicle. So they shouldn’t make it a flat insurance, which would be regressive, but tailor it to the capacity, ammunition type, and firing rate of the weapon.

That’s what would make it a progressive fee - a basic Saturday Night Special or hunting rifle would be cheap for any poor person to own, whereas a military style machine gun would be cost-prohibitive for all but the wealthiest.

They could even have extra discounts based on user certification and tested skill levels, with surcharges based on discharge accidents and situations where the gun was recorded being improperly brandished or carried.

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[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

These proposals would ultimately manifest in insurance for white peopel costing less and black people and hispanics costing more. All this does is price minorities out of gun rights. The whites will be fine, good thing they're not the ones comitting the vast majority of gun terrorism . . . Oh wait I've just received some devastating statistics . . .

[-] Car@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 months ago

Insurance underwriters would surely base their insurance premiums off that very information. I think this may be a rare case of insurance actually being somewhat fair considering race.

Then again, Baltimore.

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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Here's the problem...

We can require automobile insurance because driving a car isn't a right.

Now, owning a gun is a right, and you could argue that wearing or carrying the gun is not, but then you have to go back to New York vs Bruen:

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/597/20-843/

New York used to require special permission to wear or carry a gun. You had to provide special justification for your need to carry and "because I don't feel safe" or "I want to defend myself" wasn't good enough.

Supreme Court ruled:

"We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need. That is not how the First Amendment works when it comes to unpopular speech or the free exercise of religion. It is not how the Sixth Amendment works when it comes to a defendant’s right to confront the witnesses against him. And it is not how the Second Amendment works when it comes to public carry for self-defense."

Given that, I can't imagine they would hold an insurance requirement to be constitutional.

Should Alex Jones be forced to have liability insurance before spouting off conspiracy theories on InfoWars? Yeah, probably. But that's not the way the first amendment works either.

[-] aesthelete@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

I agree that their interpretation would work that way, however, I don't see how they can pretend their interpretation of the second amendment is anything like that of the first. They restrict time and place of first amendment rights constantly. The government can make you get a permit in order to hold a demonstration on public land. There are "free speech zones", and things like protests of pipelines are broken up by the government all of the time.

I know we shouldn't expect consistency from this bunch of looney tunes, but I still think it's worth pointing out that they're not being consistent at all.

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[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Problem. That entire ruling was based off the idea that there was no such regulations in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. Except it was an extremely common regulation. And even in that paragraph they lie. Try having a protest without a permit. Ask them how many times the government is allowed to put someone on trial. Ask them about the 4th amendment right against illegal searches and seizures, specifically Civil Asset Forfeiture, where you have to request the government to give you your stuff back that was seized without any due process. I could keep going.

A SCOTUS that lies to itself and the world for ideological purposes is not an authority on our rights.

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[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Awesome. We're going to apply it to cops too, right?

Right?

[-] __Lost__@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 8 months ago

Did you read the article? Yes, it applies to police.

[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

LOLLLLLLL if you think it'll make it to a final vote without a law enforcement exemption being added.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Yes, I quoted it in one of my other comments.

The law is not final yet, though. I'm sure there will be a wall of whine coming from the cops about how they're so special and should be exempted. The real test will be if the legistlature capitulates or leaves them in there.

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[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Do we really need to help insurance companies make more money? Are thier stocks low?

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[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

Aside from this being a regressive tax, how many unjustifiable shootings result from people legally permitted to carry a firearm?

[-] daltotron@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

I think most gun deaths tend to be handguns, and tend to be suicides, which would probably be people who would still be allowed to have a firearm in this circumstance, though I can see the insurance dissuading that in the case of people who are killing themselves on impulse (though I would think a wait period would be equally as effective, is already implemented in some places, doesn't financially discriminate, and neither legislation nor really any legislation we have actually would flag someone as being at risk if they wanted to kill themselves, except for the kind of pathetic mental health check form).

The other large category of gun deaths tend to be what is defined as "organized crime", which tends to stem from a couple different convergent factors. High value property, in drugs, that exists outside the legal system but still must be protected, lack of real social safety nets, large amounts of poverty, redlining, etc. . Generally though these people aren't like, legally acquiring their firearms anyways. What they are doing, and what is a real concern, is them acquiring firearms from legal gun owners, as the US has quite a lot of guns and not a lot of limitations or protection on them. The cartels can get a bunch of fourth generation military surplus used up garbage at an expensive black market price, or they can just rob like one gun nut, shave off a sear, and bing bang boom you have a spiffy new gun, pretty easily. I don't have a great solution to that problem, but in any case you could tackle that issue from the other side by just providing social safety nets, legalizing drugs, trying to lower housing prices, shit like that.

The stand out category in everyone's mind tends to be "mass shootings", or, lone wolf, usually stochastic, terrorism, which is kind of an interesting hot button political issue. By any analysis, though, it tends not to be a huge issue in terms of raw deaths, though, I would like to see some sort of crackdown on it happen, but you would probably need some even-handed, discriminating approach to that, or, again, better flags for mental illness, rather than a large encompassing law. Also getting a shoutout is unjustifiable police shootings but I also don't have a great solution beyond that outside of abolishing police, and getting rid of this stupid fucking patent that axon has on the taser.

In any case basically, you are correct, this law's gonna do jack shit.

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[-] doink@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Something needs to be done but wow this feels like the worst way to go.

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this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2024
159 points (96.5% liked)

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