Iām glad there were emojis in the headline so I knew how to feel about it š„“
š¤£
āI know thereās a ton of skepticism about Meta entering the fediverse ā itās completely understandable,ā Cottle says. āI do want to kind of make a plea that I think everyone on the team has really good intentions. We really want to be a good member of the community and give people the ability to experience what the fediverse is.ā
If I wanted Facebook shitposts and forwards from KlanMa, I'd've joined Facebook. And I don't believe Meta has good intentions, I believe they want to overwhelm the fediverse, and I believe they want to make money. Middle-manager Cottle and their team may have good intentions, but corporate certainly doesn't, and I certainly don't trust their users.
If I wanted Facebook shitposts and forwards from KlanMa, Iādāve joined Facebook.
I want to connect and talk to people from the Metaverse (Facebook and Threads, is it called like that?) without using their account and applications. Meta connecting to Fediverse is a good move in my opinion and what the world needs (I'm not sarcastic at the moment). In fact, I wish every company in the world offering social media would connect to the Fediverse. We have builtin ways to block other instances if we don't like them. Hell even Reddit should do it...
Yeah, I love the idea of the fediverse because it creates a democratized community where anybody can choose to listen to who they want. Unfortunately this attracts very clicky users that feel like they own the fediverse and want to push others out. I've seen it a couple times already with people clambering to defederate other instances they don't like. Thankfully we can just choose to not listen to them, lol.
I don't like Facebook and I understand the concerns that Facebook will sort of take over the fediverse from the inside like a parasite. But at the end of the day you can just spin up a vanilla instance and connect with anyone willing to do the same. That's what's great about the fediverse.
I can't see anything good coming from a company that actively spreads hatred and racism. Most of came here to get away from reddit and I keep everyone saying fuck spez, fuck reddit but hey let's invite someone who 100 worse than spez to the fediverse. Someone who has no morals at all, someone who admits he doesn't care about privacy. Why? Just so that fediverse can grow? Is it really worth it? So you can speak with friends on threads? Make a threads account and use an ad blocker to talk to them.
I don't mind bridging with other protocols like bluesky but I don't not see any value in federsting with threads it will only fil the the fediverse with so much crap that we will not able to block it.
Well that is my opinion anyway
Agreed.
Yes. I will never trust anything that Meta or anyone associated with it say. They can try to spin whatever bullshit they like with their PR speak, but fundamentally they are out to make money.
My instance will most definitely not be federating with this. Itās Meta. Untrustworthy to the core. I didnāt spin up my own Lemmy server and pay out of pocket monthly just to loop bullshit social media companies back into it.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
How would they even extinguish a whole ecosystem of independent instances? What does that even look like?
They could very well make some feature or requirement and demand that every single ActivityPub instance uses their version to remain compatible...
...and instance hosts can just say no, fork it and keep going unbothered.
Even buying up some big Lemmies and Mastodons is not going to get them the whole Fediverse.
from https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html :
In 2013, Google realised that most XMPP interactions were between Google Talk users anyway. They didnāt care about respecting a protocol they were not 100% in control. So they pulled the plug and announced they would not be federated anymore.
Basically keep people from using all the other platforms. Then stop supporting them. Similar like .docx never quite works in the open document editors. At least i refuse to believe that OSS devs are less skilled and motivated.
I've seen people bringing this up, but while they talk of EEE and XMPP, it seems like the analogy here is not being quite finished and formulated.
If we apply that to this, it seems like people are saying "if Meta changed the ActivityPub protocol to favor them and become incompatible with the rest of the Fediverse, Fediverse users would choose to return to Meta-owned platforms."
And that's what I'm questioning. Would you? Would you think others here would? I wouldn't. I'd rather go to whatever fork Fediverse devs favor instead. If anything, all the fear being expressed every time Threads integration is brought up only emphasizes that this is not how it would play out
They don't need to kill "every" lemmy/masto instance to kill the ecosystem. You just need to absorb enough of it that the only people left outside of your perversion of the ecosystem are certified weirdos.
E-Mail was (and still is) an open standard anyone could use. But after decades of getting EEE'd, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone using an E-Mail Not provided by the corporate giants, even like, other enterprises have rolled their e-mails into the Google/Microsoft ecosystems, and ALSO if you have an e-mail address that is outside those domains, normies who are inside the corporate ecosystem will have trouble communicating with you as your address will get autoflagged as spam more often than not.
...we already are all certified weirdoes. The average internet user doesn't have a single clue what Lemmy or Mastodon is. There isn't an Established Fediverse Institution that is household name for regular people on social media.
Meta could buy up lemmy.world and mastodon.social and they'd end up... exactly in the same place because most people who got into those got there to avoid big social media companies to begin with, and they'd jump ship immediately. This is the alternative social media movement. The people who are on established protocols are the ones who are already on Facebook and Twitter, and many don't even like those. They only stick around on those because everything else sounds too complicated for them.
Facebook and Twitter are today's social media GMail and Outlook equivalents. Lemmy and Mastodon are not.
People throw EEE around full of fear but it just sounds like it just became a sort of boogeyman mantra. It doesn't apply. There isn't some magic that can make Meta dominate a whole decentralized ecosystem like this. The only possible way for it to happen is if everyone decided to jump back there (which is what happened to GMail and Outlook) but paradoxically because Fediverse users are so paranoid of even vaguely coexisting in an interconnected vicinity, the odds of that happening are zero.
My concern with this (and other attempts like it) is that the initial integration will of course be done with good intentions by a team who shares the values of the community. And then they will get promotions or move to other jobs within two years and leave the technology to whims of revenue-generating part of the organization who will be merciless with it.
In terms of damage to the community, it'll be impossible to talk to the people you want to with ten thousand spamming robots separating you.
Is there a real problem there? One can always find an instance not federated with Meta.
My concern is that the toxic culture from Meta's platforms will be imported here, and the only way to get away from it would be to not only defederate from Meta but to defederate from anything federated to Meta (essentially creating two fediverses). I hope it doesn't come to that, but that's my worry.
In which case you essentially return to the status quo right now, where the Fediverse is a small group of somewhat-ideological tech enthusiasts.
Well, at least we've moved from "Meta is Satan! Defederate!!1!" to "They may mean well now but they'll turn evil later."
Well, at least we've moved from "Meta is Satan! Defederate!!1!"
No we haven't. I never stopped screaming that.
I scream it now. Fuck Meta.
We who? Speak for yourself please
Lemmy users be like āI fucking love decentralized freedomā, until someone joins they donāt like.
Lemmy users be like āI fucking love decentralized freedomā, until someone joins they donāt like.
No, especially when someone joins that we don't like. The ability to defederate is the freedom that comes with decentralisation. If there were no bad actors decentralisation wouldn't be so important.
This.
There's no "fediverse" to join. It's not an actual place with boundaries and codified rules, beyond those imposed by the communication protocol.
It's a free association content sharing network, and free association includes the freedom to not associate.
free association includes the freedom to not associate.
Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where the aliens campaign for the US presidency, and can't figure out why "abortions for all" and "abortions for none" are both unpopular opinions.
In other words, it's about freedom of choice, not mandatory association.
I think you're conflating a couple things here.
Firstly, the notion that Lemmings are xenophobic is false. While there's evidence to support this claim, on closer inspection you'll see the issue isn't about embracing new platforms, but the type of platforms. This attitude goes beyond the Threadiverse and is in fact one of the fundamental attitudes of the fediverse, as exhibited with corporate instances getting fediblocked on mastodon.
To suggest that everyone is petty because they're not embracing corporations is a giant stretch.
Counter to the outright lie that's being peddled here is the excitement about NodeBB and its ActivityPub implementation.
Secondly, people hate Facebook and rightfully so.
Thirdly, BlueSky is still a corporation who, doesn't implement ActivityPub and have built a platform that pretends to give people power while hoarding all the real power for themselves.
Also, corporations aren't "someones".
It ain't about people they don't like, it's about a powerful corporation known to be abusive, psychologically manipulative and unafraid to break laws so long as it benefits them.
You wouldn't want such an entity under your roof either
Freedom doesn't mean tolerating racism and hatred.
It's not the freedom of federating. It's the freedom of being outside corpo.
If I wasn't trying to get away from Meta I wouldn't be on fucking lemmy I'd be on facebook. The whole point of me being here is I am trying to get away from them and other big tech platforms :)
You come to the fediverse for a reason.
Meta is a shitbag company and I hope we can block their shitbag posts in our feeds.
On one hand, it makes sense for Threads to enable Fediverse integration only on public profiles, technically. With a Threads-only private profile, they can ensure that if you want to delete stuff in your profile or even your profile altogether, this can be deleted for good.
On the other hand, for people like me, it makes me unable to get in touch with my close ones who might choose to keep their profile on private. If they'd like to keep using the Fediverse in the future, they would have to choose between this or switching their profile view to public, and some people would dislike that.
This just makes Threads a poor choice for joining the Fediverse.
That's the fundamental tension here.
The right to control your own posts, after posting, imposes an obligation on everyone who archives your posts to delete when you want them deleted.
For most of the internet, the balance is simply that a person who creates something doesn't get to control it after it gets distributed to the world. Search engines, archive tools, even individual users can easily save a copy, maybe host that copy for further distribution, maybe even remix and edit it (see every meme format that relies on modification of some original phrase, image, etc.).
Even private, end to end encrypted conversations are often logged by the other end. You can send me a message and I might screenshot it.
A lot of us active on the Internet in the 90's, participating in a lot of discussion around philosophical ideas like "information wants to be free" and "intellectual property is theft" and things like copyleft licenses (GPL), creative commons licensing, etc., wanted that to be the default vision for content created on the internet: freely distributed, never forgotten. Of course, that runs into tension with privacy rights (including the right to be forgotten), and possibly some appropriation concerns (independent artists not getting proper credit and attribution as something gets monetized). It's not that simple anymore, and the defaults need to be chosen with conscious decisionmaking, while anyone who chooses to go outside of those defaults should be able to do that in a way knowledgeable of what tradeoffs they're making.
why sad faces. it looks awesome and i love how excited they are about activitypub embracing open standards should always be encouraged
It's quite disarming, isn't it?
But the nice happy guys coding the thing now are not the ones who are going to make the decisions later which will bring about the extend + extinguish phases, the ads, the crypto or whatever form the enshittification takes.
That means you can interact with your friends on threads without using their app and seeing their ads. It's a big win.
Until meta starts to slowly block small instances and we end up with the next email. Technically federated, but controlled by a few large corporations that dictates the block lists. Let us block them first so we get to define what the fediverse should look like, not them.
I want to be a good enough friend to encourage my friends to stay away from Meta. I don't want to enable them.
Hope my and other instances will de-federate from Threads/Meta.
We don't need that spyware giant in the fediverse..
Opt-in only?
Also only really discusses outbound federation, how is inbound content going to work?
That's the future. All networks connected, but I can control what's in my feed.
With all the hate towards Facebook, my prediction is there will be two fediverses: one that federates with Facebook and the other that doesn't. We'll see how that plays out.
Well, the ones that federate with Meta will still be federated with those who don't. So it's really no different from what the Fediverse is already: Fragmented by design.
I sincerely hope beehaw doesnāt federate with Meta. Theyāre pure evil
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