The discourse on American politics sometimes devolves to "Leftists who won't vote" & "MAGA Republicans" teaming up to "getting revenge on liberals".
If you aren't familiar with Project 2025 there's a good video deep dive here: https://youtu.be/dk7sCJalxAo
MAGA wants revenge and it isn't limited to just liberals.
I'm shocked and dismayed to see "Protest both candidates by telling them you'd be okay with either" on 196 of all places.
If you don't vote for Biden, Trump is gonna win. You guys know that, right?
Yes but what about the horrible things Biden is doing that Trump will also do plus a fuckton more?
Gather around for a personal story.
The year was 2015 and a friend who lives in a school bus visited town. We were all smoking weed in his bus and he said "Oh please let Clinton loose". I asked WTF are you thinking? And he responded that he spent lots of time protesting and that it didn't work because people weren't listening. It seems no matter how many terrible fascists get elected, liberals still won't listen to him.
Liberals never pay attention to popular protests unless the talking heads on TV tell them to.
I lost my faith in American "Democracy" during Occupy Wall Street, when the national media completely shut out any of the actual demands being made in favor of a "they don't even have any goals" narrative.
I still remember how well that propaganda worked on people. It became commonplace for liberals to complain that the OWS protests were aimless and lacked message.
I still see them repeating that shit!
Even when liberals are shown protests on TV, they often walk away with the wrong message. It seems the only time it doesn't happen is when the state uses violence in a way that is indefensible.
And even then it's down to a coin flip whether they'll care.
I protested at the DNC years ago with an anti-war group. Liberals won’t listen to anything that even remotely pushes them out of their comfort zone. They’d rather keep voting until something magically changes (it won’t), or they waste the rest of their time criticizing you for “allowing the right to win.”
I have to say, it’s pretty fucking annoying to be scolded by liberals that do nothing but fill in a circle, while you’re doing things like marching to protest war, writing articles, participating in things like Food Not Bombs… meanwhile, they are in a state of malfunction because you refuse to vote for one of the two right-wing candidates propped up in front of us by the ruling class so we can do the same old song and dance again while thinking something will be different this time.
~~loose~~ lose
"Revenge"?
Vindictiveness doesn't have anything to do with it, I just can't bring myself to vote for genocide.
If anything, it's resignation and apathy as everything I predicted back in 2016 continues to come to pass.
Trump is going to win in November because the Democrats care more about preserving their AIPAC financing than representing their constituents.
Okay then vote against genocide.
Donald Trump is Genocide at home and abroad.
Joe Biden is "only" Genocide abroad, and probably less of it.
Therefore, a vote for Joe Biden is a Vote against genocide.
No, it doesn't matter that he's an active participant in the apparatus that's creating the genocide, because if he's in office there's less genocide. Which is the important part, and pretending otherwise is sophistry. By abstaining from voting, you are increasing the likelihood of more genocide, if you discourage others from voting, you are an active participant in the overall social apparatus that is probabilistically increasing the ammount of genocide.
The utility calculation is dead simple: more votes for Biden in key states makes more genocide less likely, and discouraging people from voting for Biden makes more genocide more likely. Therefore, discouraging people from voting for Biden is a pro-genocide strategy and voting for Biden in battleground states is an anti-genocide strategy. I live in a solid blue state, so I reserve the right to vote third party, but I will also encourage other people to vote for Biden.
You should vote for Biden unless you live in a solid blue state, and even then it's not a bad idea.
Okay then vote against genocide.
Okay, then put it on the ballot.
Therefore, a vote for Joe Biden is a Vote against genocide.
No, it doesn't matter that he's an active participant in the apparatus that's creating the genocide
On the contrary, I think it matters very much.
By abstaining from voting, you are increasing the likelihood of more genocide, if you discourage others from voting, you are an active participant in the overall social apparatus that is probabilistically increasing the ammount of genocide.
By voting, you are prolonging the existence of the United States and guaranteeing that the genocides it supports will continue. You have made yourself an active participant in reifying the implied consent of the governed that entitles the government to act on your behalf, and with your consent it will continue to ship weapons to apartheid regimes.
The utility calculation is dead simple: more votes for Biden in key states makes the governments' dealings with the Israel appear legitimate and discourages people from taking meaningful action which might alter that relationship. Therefore, discouraging people from voting is an anti-genocide strategy.
By voting, you are prolonging the existence of the United States
Sophistry. Half the U.S. doesn't vote in elections, and they're still a global super power. Whoever told you that is an idiot.
makes the governments' dealings with the Israel appear legitimate
More sophistry. The government's legitimacy isn't brought into question by a lack of votes; your actions are no different from someone who is simply politically disengaged and apathetic.
Keeping quiet isn't an effective component of destroying the United States. Engaging in this argument the way that you are is a pro-genocide strategy because you are increasing the probability of more genocide.
Offering a sandwich with more and less peanut butter when I am allergic to peanuts still means I will be sick. I'm hungry and I want a sandwich with no peanut butter. There are third party candidates providing sandwiches with no peanut butter. I am sorry demand decreases for the sandwich with less peanut butter, but I am unable to stomach peanuts.
Alright, but it's not really about you, is it? There's untold many hungry people, some of which are allergic to peanuts, and the only crate left has nothing but.
There are several people needed to open the crate. Maybe it can be opened without you, maybe it can't maybe it's stuck regardless. But even if you don't want peanuts, it's incredibly selfish of you to not only refuse to help feed the people who can be fed but also pretend to be of upstanding moral character when you do so. So take an antacid and show up at the ballot.
Voting for a sandwich without peanut butter will result in other people deciding what sandwich you get, and the only realistic options are those with peanut butter.
Also, you'll have to eat the sandwich.
So, don't vote for genocide. Vote for one of the anti-genocide candidates, like Jill Stein or Cornel West.
Might as well stay home and save myself the trouble of wasting my time. Third parties aren't viable in a first-past-the-post election system.
In my state at least if a third party receives at least 5% of the vote they'll get significantly more funding in the next election cycle. Pretty sure that's true across the US.
You mean that thing that hasn't happened since Ross Perot in Texas 30 years ago?
Surely his Reform Party is still around after having their funding boosted, right? Nope, they dissolved in '97 after doing even worse at the polls in '96 than in '92.
Yet voting 3rd party sends a signal that many are upset instead of apathetically staying at home. Silent consent is the very thing you accuse Democrats of in a sister thread.
I'm much less concerned about the hostility of those who openly demand genocide than the inaction of those who merely pretend to oppose it.
Strong "at least they're honest about it" energy
The worst thing I could wish for you as a person, is that this comment follows you around for the rest of your life.
Gives me an idea for a new meme to cover the other half:
"Leftists who won’t vote" 🤝 “Democrats” agree on being “apathetic”.
In 2016, the leftists and MAGA got revenge on liberals by getting roe overturned and installing a conservative court for a generation. Leftists are really humble though, because few will take credit for this historic achievement.
Non-american here, why is it that the 2016 election was lost because of a "leftists not voting" boogeyman instead of Hillary Clinton being a deeply unsympathetic canidate, pushing away an objectively better canidate (Bernie) because it was "her time", and doing jack-shit to visit swing states to give speeches? From what I remember, she did the bare minimum because she thought she would have the election in the bag anyway.
Oh, and that whole court thing, wasn't that because of that piece of shit democrat judge not retiring under obama because she had some main character syndrome or something and instead decided to die under a republican president? Why is she not the one at fault here?
I'm voting for a third party instead of the slightly less evil fascist. I recommend y'all do as well. Dr. West and Claudia La Cruz are good options.
If you're not in a swing state I recommend you do the same.
So you’re voting for Trump
Not sure how you got that out of my comment. I knew the literacy rates in the US were bad but jeeze.
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.