this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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christianity

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The book suggests that the defining problem driving out most people who leave is … just how American life works in the 21st century. Contemporary America simply isn’t set up to promote mutuality, care, or common life. Rather, it is designed to maximize individual accomplishment as defined by professional and financial success. Such a system leaves precious little time or energy for forms of community that don’t contribute to one’s own professional life or, as one ages, the professional prospects of one’s children. Workism reigns in America, and because of it, community in America, religious community included, is a math problem that doesn’t add up.

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[–] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I also think the behaviour of the church and the way it inexplicably tied itself to right wing politics and the monarchy (in my country) is a big part. They ask why have people stopped coming - come on man you know why you just don't want to address it because you worship capital before God

[–] axont@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah there's currently a huge split among American Methodists right now, which was a church founded to basically be "normal default Christians" and not embroiled within deeper theological or political questions.

They're tearing themselves apart over gay and trans issues. Half of the Methodists want to just stop hearing/talking about it, the other half want to start their own explicitly conservative version of Methodism. It's making a lot of people simply disinterested in going to church, going from what I'm hearing from Methodists.

[–] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

My in-laws are Methodists and I got in a little trouble with my wife a while back for inquiring with my MIL about whether their family's church was staying with the "progressives who aren't bigots are a minority that is tolerated" branch of the church or schisming with the "if you allow a minority of non-homophobic/transphobic Methodists to remain in the church, eventually they'll overthrow the conservatives" branch.

I did phrase it a little more diplomatically of course.

I actually still don't know which they are.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I actually still don't know which they are.

I think a lot of church members are confused too, since the whole reason they became Methodists instead of explicitly bigoted Baptists or Pentecostals was to avoid this kind of church politics in the first place.

I doubt it'll get handled democratically either. Methodists are just gonna show up to church one day to see a sign saying "no wokeness allowed" because their preacher joined the openly bigoted side

[–] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If they can afford to. My understanding is that joining the openly bigoted side means that they have to pay a bunch of fees to the national branch, which most of them probably can't afford to due to declining membership.

Local bigoted institution goes bankrupt is also an acceptable outcome though

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

It seems like breaking right would really make them vulnerable to vandalism if they already need to pay a fee that they can't afford just to try it.

[–] mar_k@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I live in a very liberal area at the moment, and there's a Church near me with a sign saying "everyone welcome" and the gay/trans pride flag on it. Most people obviously still don't attend weekly, but I've talked to people that say they would never have attended for Easter or anything in the first place if it wasn't for the church making it clear they preach tolerance.

[–] Bnova@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

My family was non religious growing up and my best friend had lesbian moms and was conceived in vitro at a time when the church and public was bullying them and claiming that people convinced in vitro didn't have souls. I definitely went through a new atheist phase but have mellowed out having had friends who are very religious but the type who are compelled to do better rather than just be bigots.

[–] axont@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I grew up Methodist, but once my parents started working weekends, that just stopped entirely.

I feel like the internet is replacing the function of what churches used to be, which were the primary social activity of any given location. They were where you'd find work, find a spouse, make friends. They were a genuine third location to have some connection to your community.

They were also places for kids to get abused and for insane reactionaries to feel validated. I guess it's a mixed bag. But churches just aren't operating as that third location anymore. People can go online for community at this point. Is that better? Probably not.

I guess it's also easier now to research alternate religious opinions, or to see them at least. My cousins who grew up fundamentalist had no clue other religions existed until everyone became Islamophobic after 9/11.

[–] rubpoll@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Before 9/11, I thought the only 3 religions were Judaism, Christianity, and Asian.

And I thought Christianity was about a guy named Christian.

They were also places for kids to get abused and for insane reactionaries to feel validated

damn the internet really has replaced them completely then huh

[–] NATO_phobe@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

IMO the main reason the church has spectacularly failed is because the true and revolutionary message of Christ has been utterly inverted into Unironic Satanism; the worship of capital, military, police, politicians, and state institutions. Reminds me of a quote from Nietzsche (I know cringe, but bear with me): "As soon as a religion becomes dominant, it has at once as its enemies those who would have been its first followers." Now, what does this mean? It means that Christianity was never meant to be a mainstream religion, it is a slave religion for the oppressed and a tool to escape the shackles of oppression. It was never meant to intermingle with those in the heights of worldly power. The coopting of Christianity by Emperor Constantine of Rome was the worst thing that could've ever happened to Jesus' message. Christianity was never meant to be imposed on other or used as a nationalist symbol. Just as Lenin spoke of revolutionaries and how reactionaries would dull their message and soften their image, and present that image to the people to appease them (think of MLK).

I found what I think is the true nature of the original church in rehab of all places. The culture of my 30-day rehab was one of acceptance and understanding. There were people from all walks of life and class, but we were all brought low by addiction, rendering us equal in sin. It produced a humility and openness that doesn't exist in the outside world. I believe the sacrament of Confession was originally meant to be like sharing in AA or NA. We admit our sins to each other, not to a priest. In this way, the rehab culture reminded me of a socialist society and God I miss it so much. It was the only time I ever really felt apart of something. Anyway, We need to build a new church, yes we need a reformation and it will be a fight against the reactionaries who will call us false Christians, but didn't Jesus fight the Pharisees? It is our duty now to denounce all reactionary Christians as what they are: Pharisees.

[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Speaking as a recovering Catholic, I think the whole child molestation thing is what put the final nail in the coffin for me. They prioritized not embarrassing the church over bringing child predators to justice. Absolutely disgusting.

[–] Elon_Musk@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yea, same reason no one who works 40 hours a week has friends past a certain age.

[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

Must be the work hours and not that people are realizing the truth 🤷‍♂️

Also, the vast majority of organized religions are just a front for grifting. “Collection plate” my ass, let me see those books.

[–] hexaflexagonbear@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Discovered that the real opiate of the masses is opiates

[–] Hohsia@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I find it incomprehensible how Christianity can be such a dominant religion considering how many others exist combined with the age of ubiquitous information we live in

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Religion is culture, not epistemology

[–] JamesConeZone@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't have much to add, but I appreciate everyone sharing their stories here heart-sickle

The church is losing people in America because it no longer liberates. It enslaves as a function of the bourgeoise. You cannot run a church as a business and expect to liberate. Only by siding with the marginalized can the American church hope to stand a chance before the God it believes in.

As James Cone wrote..

Many Christians embrace the conviction that Jesus died on the cross to redeem humankind from sin. Taking our place, they say, Jesus suffered on the cross and gave his life as a ransom for many... The cross is the great symbol of the Christian narrative of salvation. Unfortunately, during the course of 2,000 years of Christian history, this symbol of salvation has been detached from the ongoing suffering and oppression of human beings, those whom the Salvadorian martyr Ignacio Ellacuria called "the crucified people of history." The cross has been transformed into a harmless, non-offensive ornament that Christians wear around their necks. Rather than reminding us of the cost of discipleship, it has become a form of cheap grace, an easy way to salvation that doesn’t force us to confront the power of Christ’s message and mission.”

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

White churches have been enslaving since before Jamestown and with very little interruption since.