Maybe I'm too laid back to notice, but I've never seen anyone hate men just because they're male. So much so, that in order to answer this question I had to google what "misandry" meant. I had no clue what the hell you were even asking.
Is this seriously a thing? Am I in a bubble isolated from this? Or are you in a bubble where non-issues are issues for you? Genuinely asking.
I’ve never seen anyone hate men just because they’re male
I've almost never actually seen it, but it's BAD when it does appear. Had one boss tell me straight to my face that I was going to be useless because I was a man. She did all sorts of really petty stuff, like removing the clock from the break room and chewing me out for being ~30 seconds late coming back from break. Lost that job in less than a week when she literally lied to the manager that I never showed up for a shift. I could have easily fought and won for the job back, but I just didn't care at all and spent my effort on more fruitful things.
Fuck fighting to get a job back. You probably could have sued her for MONEY!
Not worth it in the US unless you are certain to get enough to never work again. You will be framed as anti-woman regardless of facts and that will effectively ban you from future employment.
Unfortunately there are certain niches on tiktok... Depending where the algorithm throws you
Oh, I'm ABSOLUTELY in a bubble away from tiktok.
You know how a broken clock is right twice a day? Well, trump actually got tiktok right the FIRST time he had an opinion on it, in 2016, and surprisingly enough for the right reason.
It IS a Chinese espionage tool. It always has been. Both against their own citizens, and against other nations userbase.
I just want to make clear two things.
I'm NOT a trump supporter. He just happened to be right on this one issue in 2016. It's one of those times where I was like "Wait.....really? I'm agreeing with trump??? That can't be right.....no, it checks out. He's making rational points......are we SURE this is trump??? The orange cheeto man? The grease pizza slut? That guy is.....alright. Feels weird agreeing with trump on something...."
He's since reversed his stance, and gotten his own tiktok once he realized he could game the system. So, suddenly he's pro-tiktok. Which is somehow better for me personally. I can keep my position, and not feel dirty for being on trumps side. I have spent all of 0 minutes on tiktok.
There are niches for everything on tiktok. Best way to deal with them is to not engage.
The highest frequency I see of it is when issues are discarded when it is an issue with men. Be it homelessness, suicide, job inequality, domestic violence or any other issue. But not for women. It seems men are worthless in a lot of people's eyes because they aren't women.
Or equally men are responsible for all the bad things in the world because simply they are men and men are responsible. For example a common issue is when men say they open up to a woman and that women used that to attack them. Then someone might say this is the patriarchy and toxic masculinity in action and men need to sort it out. Even though the man has done absolutely nothing wrong only the woman. Deflecting any responsibly from women doing something they shouldn't have.
The inequality of responses from those being harmed, or undervalued and those responsible for the negativity seems at times strongly dependant on if it is a man or a women.
At least that is what I have seen mostly. But I'm more curious about others.
The highest frequency I see of it is when issues are discarded when it is an issue with men. Be it homelessness,
I wouldn't discard the risks to men that are homeless, but I easily acknowledge that a homeless woman would likely be much more vulnerable.
suicide,
This one seems very equal to me. Its a usually a tragedy to lose someone of either gender. I'm not upset if a rapist or murderer commits suicide, however, irrespective of their gender.
job inequality,
I'm not following where this is a detriment to men. Statistically and my own anecdotal observation, women are much more negatively affected by job inequality.
domestic violence
I agree this one is frequently overlooked where men are the victims. Our society is evolving on this, but not fast enough.
But not for women. It seems men are worthless in a lot of people’s eyes because they aren’t women.
I can't say I see that reflected in society. What I do see are some calling out specific issues (at least one you've raised above) as recently negatively affecting men, while the same issue has been negatively affecting women far worse and for far longer and that it had been ignored. It comes off as lack of self reflection and disingenuous where men have allowed women to suffer for years (decades? centuries?), but as soon as men are experiencing it too, its a crisis now!
Or equally men are responsible for all the bad things in the world
Certainly not all, but certainly lots and lots of bad things. Only 13 of the 193 UN member nations have ever had a woman leader of the nation. source I don't see how anyone can say women are to blame for that, nor the policies those world leaders put into place.
because simply they are men and men are responsible.
Well, if men are in charge, then it would follow that they're responsible for the outcomes, yes? I'm willing to give a woman a chance to lead. She certainly can't be any worse that some of the worst men we've had as leaders.
For example a common issue is when men say they open up to a woman and that women used that to attack them. Then someone might say this is the patriarchy and toxic masculinity in action and men need to sort it out. Even though the man has done absolutely nothing wrong only the woman. Deflecting any responsibly from women doing something they shouldn’t have.
I don't know what women you have in your life, but I have never experience this first hand with any of the women in my life.
At least that is what I have seen mostly. But I’m more curious about others.
I almost never see this kind of thing, even online. I don't do reddit (anymore), facebook, or tiktok though, so maybe thats where its happening that I don't see it?
I think this is a good example of some of the issues men face.
"It comes off as lack of self reflection and disingenuous where men have allowed women to suffer for years (decades? centuries?), but as soon as men are experiencing it too, its a crisis now!
Or equally men are responsible for all the bad things in the world
Certainly not all, but certainly lots and lots of bad things. Only 13 of the 193 UN member nations have *ever* had a woman leader of the nation. [source](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/28/women-leaders-around-the-world/) I don't see how anyone can say women are to blame for that, nor the policies those world leaders put into place.
because simply they are men and men are responsible. Well, if men are in charge, then it would follow that they're responsible for the outcomes, yes?
I'm willing to give a woman a chance to lead. She certainly can't be any worse that some of the worst men we've had as leaders."
I think this is a good example of some of the issues men face. That their issues do not matter because others have it worse. And like you show it is always lost in the general grouping of things. "I do not care how badly you as an individual has been treated because the group you are part of hasn't been as hard done by as another group. Therefore because you are part of that group your issues matter less". There always seems to be thus weird idea present that because say women have had it worse in the past that things need to be evened out by men having it worse now. Bad things have happened in the past yes, that goes without saying. But short of a time machine it won't ever be fixed, but discrimination or issues in the present of any kind should be fixed. It shouldn't be some weighing up of past offences of a group before an decision on an individual, that has in no way contributed to past offences happens. That's what discrimination is.
A lot of leaders has been upper class white men yes. But they exploited working class white men as much as anyone. So because an upper class white man did something in the past some working class white man must pay for it now? Class is way more important than gender in a lot of things. How am I, a man that has never been in a position of power anymore responsible for geopolitics than a women that hasn't been in power? Taring me for being a man for crimes of other men isn't right.
But again you are passing the responsibility and making excuses. No one is denying men have done bad things. But accepting men have also being on the receiving end of bad things just for being men, or just in general, is important. This is the most kind of the misandry I see. Women doing something and then saying that because white men are in charge they are without fault? The guys in power don't have that much power, that don't stop individuals mistreating other individuals.
It seems men are worthless in a lot of people’s eyes
That's just a simple truth of the world that all men have to learn: Strangers have no reason to care about you unless you have something valuable to offer them. It might sound harsh at first, but you learn the wisdom of it as you grow, as it also frees you from obligations to people you can't necessarily trust, which is critical when your social role is to protect those closest to you. It imparts upon the man a fundamental sense of urgency to live and let live as much as possible, and to pursue positive personality traits so that one can benefit from their relationship with their neighbours.
Oh, when you put it like that, I filed that under "people are people" catagory in my head long ago.
See, as a guy, we're expected to uphold a certain silence of our emotions. If we're sad at a funeral, we're expected not to cry. If we're worried, we're expected to suck it up. If we're frustrated we're expected to get over it.
And women will say "oh, guys just don't have any connection to their feelings". Except, it's not all women. Thats what I mean by people are people. Each individual person has a certain unique viewpoint, and it's defined by personal experiences. Which means every single one is different, but in groups they may share certain opinions.
The confusing part is when women tell you that you need to open up and express your feelings. Because roughly half genuinely mean it. Half of them want you to explore your emotions. But half of them SAY they want that.....until you do it. Then they just say you're supposed to be a MAN and bottle this all up. Despite 20 minutes earlier begging for us to let them in.
And as a man, you don't know which one you're talking to. DOES she genuinely want to hear your dreams, and problems in life? Or does she just want to mock you for (insert whatever trauma you've had here).
Every individual person sees life through their own lenses, and the vast majority cannot fathom the concept that their views are not the "correct views". That there are no "correct views". There are only "compatible views".
Me personally, I need a woman who's more traditional in some views, but more open to other views. That doesn't mean someone who wants an open relationship is a bad person. It just means they're not compatible with me. I want monogomy. But I've seen both men and women look at an incompatible person and deem them to be a bad person, or immoral. I just see them as different people. Two people who want open relationship? Thats fine. You both consented. The only people I think are bad people are those who put their own views in front of others, and demand the whole world revolve around those views. And unfortunately that feels like it's the vast majority of people.
So I just crack a beer, file it away as "people are going to be people" and forget the whole thing.
What do you mean by "misandry"?
If you mean "women venting about their experiences in a male-dominated world", then I don't give a shit. I just try not to be the reason they're complaining.
If you mean unrealistic emotional expectations for men, like we're not allowed to cry or be sensitive or feel any emotion but anger, it frustrates me. I don't really know how to handle it.
Ironically, I’ve only experienced the second one from other men.
Same, actually.
Not the first one.
I wasn't thinking the second but that would be an example. I would say conversations with men over this topic is a lot easier than you would expect. There is support there. Bringing up with women who want a men to not cry or be sensitive can be difficult.
I'd refer to "toxic masculinity" or "the manosphere" if that's what you meant.
I mean, I think there’s a time and a place for crying and it’s not usually in public, but if you are among a support network, then by all means.
That said, after a devastating breakup for me, I have cried in public, at a party, among strangers, and it sucked.
What I would like to see is just more camaraderie in general. Not bro culture per se, just more, social events. Kinda like the beer halls of yesteryear in Germany or the Shriners clubs. I feel like a lot of these rotaries, lions, etc, just have kind of fallen away in most towns, particularly for young people, and I really think we are losing a piece of our community because of it.
Meetups used to fill some of that gap for me, but it’s been way too long (and two moves) since I’ve been to one. And I’m not the type to go to church (believe me, I tried - the whole women lesser than men thing around here really turned me off).
I’m one of those weirdos, 50/50 introvert extrovert. And now with a family, it’s tougher than ever.
it’s tough being a white man in America these days.
In all seriousness the deck is so stacked in my favor that the small amount of misandry there may be wouldn’t bother me at all. Generally the only way I’m underprivileged (adhd) is largely hidden. I don’t believe I’ve ever encountered misandry in real life. Online I’ve come across it occasionally, but it tends to be in niche communities I’m not a part of that I’ve stumbled on. And honestly there is so much misogyny that pervades our society that I’m inclined to give them a bit of a pass.
It is annoying, thankfully quite rare. No way to defend against it either because then you're mansplaining.
Far worse than mansplaining, when you mention or react to misandry you are demonstrating signs of being on the slippery slope to becoming a mass shooter.
(Not something I believe; reporting what the zeitgeist claims)
More generally, there is an archetype of a “man who’s gone bad” and human society tends to view such men as extremely dangerous (because they can be).
At our current time in history, the tolerances on acceptable male behavior are extremely tight, and it doesn’t take much for a man to become marked for disposal.
The mechanism we currently use is this notion of a “pipeline” by which men who grumble about being mistreated are considered to be destined for total severance from decency and a descent into individual terrorism.
But really, it’s just an intensification of the ever-present male disposability. The enhancement is caused by the fact that the mating ratio has changed. With the proliferation of tinder and other hookup apps, a successfully-mating man can fuck hundreds of women per year.
This means the number of men we can dispose of while still maintaining a sense of generational reproductive security has gone up, and our collective unconscious is therefore searching for reasons to dispose of men.
That’s the underlying psychosocial energy pattern. The manifestation is an expansion of all categories related to “dangerous man”.
Just like the system criminalizes crack way more than cocaine, as a way of targeting black people, which is an expression of racist psychosocial energy, manifesting in legal excuses to lock black people up.
The same thing happens with men, by modulating the levels of male disposability via cultural rules.
This is, fundamentally, why men feel more and more constrained to act in a narrow band of acceptable behavior.
I don’t have to interact with them. I kinda move on to more important things, like arguing about video games.
I treat anyone with a hatred against a gender the same as a racist - they get blocked.
This may be a boring answer but I don't deal with it simply because I'm not drawn to online spaces where it occurs. I don't know what I would do if I did experience misandry. Leave? Engaging probably wouldn't help.
If you're encountering this and can link to a thread where it happened to you, that might help some of us understand is going on. Maybe it's a matter of interaction style, background beliefs, or topic areas or user cultures that you get involved with. I'm mostly in nerdy areas where it hasn't been much of an issue, or alternatively, it's an issue that I'm too oblivious to notice.
I completely ignore it and it doesn't affect me one bit.
Anytime anyone says “mansplaining” you are witnessing it.
Yup, happens. Girls use mansplaining as an excuse to not listen and avoid comprehending something just because of the gender speaking. Really rude when they interrupt too.
I deal with it with grace, understanding, and compassion. I'm gay, but as a white cis man I still have obscene amounts of privilege. I feel a bit like a double agent. I'm a minority, but as I move through the world I am afforded all of the privilege that patriarchy can offer. And I can say with full confidence, the misandry I encounter pales in comparison to the homophobia I encounter. This goes for online as well as irl. And "pales in comparison" is inadequate. It's so not even on the same playing field. They are not even comparable. I get it. It's rougher to be a straight man than it's ever been. I routinely get "mistreated" because I'm a bearded white guy who looks like Steve from Minnesota. But having a woman be less polite to me now and then is nowhere near what I go through as a queer. Especially growing up. I used to pray every night for god to kill me. Because I am queer. Not because I am a man. And I've tried to explain this to my brothers, and they don't get it and can't help but feel like the victim in all of this. And I bet you will align with them. But hopefully someone reading this will hear it. Yes, you are struggling. But fucking cope. Cope. Sharpen your coping skills. Because you have still been spared in a way you can't even comprehend.
I deal with it in the same way I deal with misogony, I realize that everyone has their own experiences and that some dislike either way is to be expected, but if someone fixates on either I ignore them and more on.
I have much better things to do than arguing with hateful people on the internet.
I know you want to focus this thread on misandry but I had a learning experience with dealing with misogony a few years back...
I am a man, and back in 2011 when I first joined Reddit I was feeling a bit lost, I recently graduated, I had got my first job, wasn't a good fit, I was lonely and depressed.
I was (still am) fat and balding, had never been in any kind of relationship, I was feeling resentment, and didn't know where to channel it.
As I joined reddit I found the subreddit MensRights, and thought that it was interesting to learn about issues affecting men rather than hearing only about issues affecting women.
So I joined the subreddit, and over the next few years I read stories about how men were mistreated, and how unfair life was for us.
It was interesting, felt like I had discovered the final puzzle pieces that would complete my social understanding of society.
But, after a few years of having MenRights in my Reddit feed daily, I started noticing that I started disliking women in general.
I never wanted that, I realized that if I wanted to have any chance to find a woman as a partner or just as a friend, something needed to change, and after looking at the mental puzzle mentioned above, I realized that the peice I thought was the final peice had grown, and pushed everything out of alignement.
So I cut out MensRights from my subscriptions, and just decided to ignore it, and that did wonders for me, I don't feel any hate or dislike for women any longer, I still don't have a partner, but that is my own issue to deal with, and it is unfair to take it out on others.
Cutting out MensRights was harder than I thought, I had to properly decide and tell myself to do it, I suppose it was a coping mechanism.
My point to all of this is that while you can't change other's oppinions online, you can change what communities you engage with, be critical and analyze which communities affect you in what ways.
Or to put it like the WTYP podcast often say, you can just leave, there is nothing forcing you to stay in communities that are full of misandry or misogony, you can just leave.
It's not very common. When I encounter it, I tend to get angry, as I do against all bigots.
I don't deal with it at all cuz I don't have the time to spend searching for hours to find some.
I think it does, especially when it's by people who like to pretend they do it for some kind of equality. Have been thinking about quitting social media for a while, I generally don't like the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) hatred towards men.
On one hand it makes you feel sorry for the women of the past who went through this for much longer than we have (and in many more parts of life than I did), on the other hand fuck the misandrists, I never discriminated against women, not sure why I should be called out for what rich and powerful did.
And there's one last thing that kinda scares me, the young teen men look so depressed nowadays, I honestly wouldn't want to be a teen these days. I think my teens were at the best possible time (at least when it comes to this, not such a great time if you ever dreamed of owning a house) - we were taught to treat women as equals but no one made us a public enemy on social media for being men.
I run into far more misandry in real life than online.
I joined a men’s group so I can have a place that what I am is celebrated.
It makes me realize what kind of world I live in. I keep my walls up.
Ignore it and no.
Lmao this is already getting brigaded -10 votes op. Just for asking a question. But yeah i just laugh it off as crazy feminist agenda sad femcel shit. My current gf was a strong feminist when we met but eventually she stopped socializing with feminists and has a more healthy mindset and works on improving herself and our home instead of the hyperfocus on misandry. I never really talked her out of it, she just grew out of it.
I don't think it's brigades, I think people just generally didn't like the tone. I didn't vote on this post but I did question the OP's experience and intent when asking so bluntly and describing it as "marginalization".
And more to the point, comments such as yours, which equate "feminism" with "misandry" are likely a bigger contributor to why people don't appreciate this post overall.
That comment didn’t equate them, but rather associated them.
And they are associated.
At the extreme ends, sure. But we can't discuss them as if they're representative of the general concept. I don't go around identifying myself as a feminist unprompted but I do believe in equality for all. And I don't see how that means us men will suddenly have to be second class next to women. It's equality, it's equal. I'm not suggesting we shift who's in power but rather we should balance it evenly.
Do you see where I'm coming from at all?
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