this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse

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Law is complicated for many reasons. Private people (here referred to as the personally taxed) don't have the means, both financial and time, sometimes also the ability to understand the language used in lawmaking, which isn't made to be easily understood, to keep up with the law. Normally people aren't really expected to, if you're a "good" person (morality being subjective and cultural, of course), you're unlikely to break a law and get punished for it (not diving into edge cases of people forced by their circumstances). But then you're forced to comply with tax law. If it's automated, you can get unrightfully made to pay more without your knowledge. If it's not, you get forced into a game staged against you. People shouldn't be taxed. Tax should be solely handled by the companies, because they have the means to hire people dedicated to taxes. I feel like this is very important and tax is frequently brought up in many ways, but I don't see people speaking of this and I'd love to!

Disclaimer: I file for tax literally refreshing for it to be available and help other people with their tax. It's precisely why I think personal taxation is wrong. I know too many people who paid way too much in tax and didn't know and cannot claim it, because it's been too long since.

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[–] Frank@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Taxes strike me as one of the more bizarre inefficiencies of capitalism. Instead of having the entity that prints the money, nominally owns all the land, nominally builds all the infrastructure, sets all the regulations, and administers large sections of society handle it's own finances, we've got like five thousand different entities jostling for tax income, while a hundred million individual taxpayers try to skeeve out of their tax responsibilities, and huge parts of the country can't sustain basic infrastructure and public services? Most rational economic system.

[–] Twink@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I didn't even think of this! Thank you for putting out this perspective. meow-hug It's indeed very dumb.

Also, if you have a pronoun chosen and put "none" in the second slot, only the first slot will be displayed. Just in case you didn't know, but maybe you like being a he/him he/him so sorry for assuming. >////<''

[–] ElChapoDeChapo@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Also, if you have a pronoun chosen and put "none" in the second slot, only the first slot will be displayed. Just in case you didn't know, but maybe you like being a he/him he/him so sorry for assuming. >////<''

Holy shit, I didn't even realize that was an option! Damn I really like the comrade part though

If I could be comrade he/him comrade he/him that would be best

[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

wealth taxes are also good, at least until we have the power to expropriate it.

[–] Twink@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Of course! But I think it should be smartly implemented to ensure they cannot fight against it by appealing to poor people with delusions of becoming rich one day. Instead of choosing a wealth tax per income, I'd put a wealth tax per property owned, making it so one person can only own however much housing their family needs. I.e. dictating it by square meters per person inside the family, so they cannot game it through making it so husband owns one thing, wife another and child another while they live in one place and rent the rest (and so the rich who live in unreasonable mansions cannot say "I only own one" while their mansion is bigger than housing for hundreds). And of course a tax on unspent wealth, but I'll be fully honest and admit I've no idea how I'd approach it not to screw over people trying to save up for retirement or people saving up to buy their first home.

[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

by ensuring that those needs are guaranteed by the state regardless of one's ability to work.

[–] Twink@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

Of course! I also don't believe in privately owned housing, and really hate when families don't move into appropriate sized housing once their children move out to make space for families with children who need these, however, in the truly bisexual fashion, I play both revolutionist approach and reformist approach. Reform will not sate me, but I still feel inclined to seek ways to improve conditions for the working class heart-sickle even if temporarily.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The capitalist first takes a slice of my pie, then the landlord, and finally the fuckin state comes in to steal my money to build bombs and NOT fix the goddamn busted roads

It's enough to turn one into a Khrone Berserker

[–] Twink@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Isn't blood for the blood god a form of taxation? thonk

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

Just got to make sure it's the blood of the richthink-about-it

[–] FuckYourselfEndless@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Marx and Engels, from the early 1840s right up until – in Engels’s case – the early 1890s, make a string of prescriptive observations very much of contemporary resonance. They support progressive taxes, both on capital and income, have a strong preference for direct over indirect taxation, and back restrictions on inheritance. The 1880s basis for a land-value tax is challenged, while taxes on financial transactions, though associated with the stock market, whose “immorality and rascality” Engels is happy to denounce, are nonetheless indirect in structure. The management of state finances is critiqued. There is even some tacit endorsement of tax evasion, both personal (by Marx) and corporate (by Engels).

There is also the rare sight of Marx as a campaigning activist, as he and close associate Wilhelm Woolf highlighted regressive taxes, to contrast the lives of peasants and laborers with those of the 1%-ers of their day, through the pages of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung, in 1848-9.

The tax landscape of Marx and Engels is clearly different to our own – thus in 1849, indirect taxes accounted for 40% of the Prussian Royal Finance Ministry total tax take, and direct taxes, only 29%, whereas today in the UK or Germany, indirect taxes are in the minority, with direct taxes generating around two-thirds of the total take.

. . .

Property tax, in need of reform in many countries, is one tricky item in the Marxist tax universe. Although then UK Chancellor Philip Hammond argued that Labour’s (tentative) support for a land-value tax (LVT) in 2017 would be “attacking land on Marxist principles,” both Marx and Engels were strongly opposed to LVT, as propounded by Henry George in Progress and Poverty, given that “what Henry George demands, leaves the present mode of social production untouched.” But Marx’s observation on The New English Budget in 1857, “now, if taxes are not to be raised by customs and excise duties, they must be directly derived from property and income,” points to some ambivalence in this area.

https://marxistsociology.org/2019/08/marx-on-taxation/

Basic Marxist article on taxes if anyone's interested.

[–] Twink@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There is even some tacit endorsement of tax evasion, both personal (by Marx) and corporate (by Engels). Any idea why it may be?

[–] GorbinOutOverHere@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Income taxation abolition would be incredibly popular among right wing morons and idk why the left doesn't capitalize on that but hey Im not a money nerd maybe I'm naive in just thinking the govt doesn't need to penalize individuals to fund itself when it controls the fucking currency.

[–] Twink@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

That's a good point! Further reason to listen to my twink rambling. :3