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Hello World,

following feedback we have received in the last few days, both from users and moderators, we are making some changes to clarify our ToS.

Before we get to the changes, we want to remind everyone that we are not a (US) free speech instance. We are not located in US, which means different laws apply. As written in our ToS, we're primarily subject to Dutch, Finnish and German laws. Additionally, it is our discretion to further limit discussion that we don't consider tolerable. There are plenty other websites out there hosted in US and promoting free speech on their platform. You should be aware that even free speech in US does not cover true threats of violence.

Having said that, we have seen a lot of comments removed referring to our ToS, which were not explicitly intended to be covered by our ToS. After discussion with some of our moderators we have determined there to be both an issue with the ambiguity of our ToS to some extent, but also lack of clarity on what we expect from our moderators.

We want to clarify that, when moderators believe certain parts of our ToS do not appropriately cover a specific situation, they are welcome to bring these issues up with our admin team for review, escalating the issue without taking action themselves when in doubt. We also allow for moderator discretion in a lot of cases, as we generally don't review each individual report or moderator action unless they're specifically brought to admin attention. This also means that content that may be permitted by ToS can at the same time be violating community rules and therefore result in moderator action. We have added a new section to our ToS to clarify what we expect from moderators.

We are generally aiming to avoid content organizing, glorifying or suggesting to harm people or animals, but we are limiting the scope of our ToS to build the minimum framework inside which we all can have discussions, leaving a broader area for moderators to decide what is and isn't allowed in the communities they oversee. We trust the moderators judgement and in cases where we see a gross disagreement between moderatos and admins' criteria we can have a conversation and reach an agreement, as in many cases the decision is case-specific and context matters.

We have previously asked moderators to remove content relating to jury nullification when this was suggested in context of murder or other violent crimes. Following a discussion in our team we want to clarify that we are no longer requesting moderators to remove content relating to jury nullification in the context of violent crimes when the crime in question already happened. We will still consider suggestions of jury nullification for crimes that have not (yet) happened as advocation for violence, which is violating our terms of service.

As always, if you stumble across content that appears to be violating our site or community rules, please use Lemmys report functionality. Especially when threads are very active, moderators will not be able to go through every single comment for review. Reporting content and providing accurate reasons for reports will help moderators deal with problematic content in a reasonable amount of time.

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[-] StarshotJohn@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago
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[-] The4th@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago

Does anyone know of a "(US) free speech instance"?

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 12 points 2 days ago

If you want a US based-instance

If you want a non US instance

Bear in mind that instances being hosted in the US do not automatically mean they'll implement full free speech. Discuss.online for instance, uses the Code of Conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html

[-] StarshotJohn@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Thanks for the better options!

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 3 points 2 days ago

Happy to help

[-] The4th@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago
[-] Blaze@feddit.org 4 points 2 days ago

No. Discuss.online explicitly refer to it in their sidebar. Other instances have other rules, some may don't have any (but I don't know any of those)

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[-] Jamablaya@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

"We have previously asked moderators to remove content relating to jury nullification when this was suggested in context of murder or other violent crimes. Following a discussion in our team we want to clarify that we are no longer requesting moderators to remove content relating to jury nullification in the context of violent crimes when the crime in question already happened. We will still consider suggestions of jury nullification for crimes that have not (yet) happened as advocation for violence, which is violating our terms of service." Ok that is utter bullshit regardless of country, and I'm no American saying that. You though, whoever wrote that, have completely revealed yourself as an utter statist monkey begging to be dominated

[-] DrFistington@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

Jury nullification is a completely valid topic/concern to discuss in the context of the alleged UHC CEO shooter.

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[-] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 103 points 3 days ago

Woah, I get not allowing advocating for violence, but restricting people from discussing the topic of jury nullification is pretty messed up regardless of how you feel about the killing.

[-] Jamablaya@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

That's the oldest trick in the propaganda arsenal, there ain't one English speaking legal or education system that wants every citizen to know they can just decide to let it slide. They actively, and with insane propaganda levels, push this "rule of law" bullshit that results in jurors on the news after the trial saying shit like "I didn't know we could just let them go even if they did it" Zero critical thinking, they needed to be told.

[-] granolabar@kbin.melroy.org 23 points 3 days ago

Shills never tell you who they shill for but checking who they can't criticize is interesting data point

I always had my suspicion about world modding and this sort of confirms that bias.

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[-] Stamets@lemmy.world 78 points 3 days ago
  1. If Jury Nullification is legal and allowed, then frankly covering that exact thing up is an abomination and y'all should be utterly ashamed of yourselves. Since when is Lemmy in the habit of backing an establishment while not allowing people involved to know the full picture? Genuinely shameful and disgusting behavior.

  2. Yeah, I'm not going to ever remove anything from my communities relating to that or to the violence against the CEO. There is no difference between Brian Thompson and any other mass murderer on the planet. Are you asking me to protect Hitler or Pol Pot as well from criticisim and glee over their death? No? Then I am sure as fuck not going to do it for this guy.

[-] fubo@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Jury nullification is a real thing, but it is often misunderstood ... mostly because right-wing libertarians and sovereign-citizen kooks have spent decades pushing conspiracy theory about it.

It isn't an affirmative right of individual citizens to get onto juries and individually block the enforcement of the law. An individual juror cannot nullify. Rather, jury nullification is a logical consequence of two important rules in our legal system:

  1. Double jeopardy: if a defendant gets a "not-guilty" verdict from a jury, that defendant cannot be retried for that same crime.
  2. Juror independence: the judge cannot order the jury to return a particular verdict, nor punish them for the verdict they return.

Double jeopardy is in the US Constitution. Juror independence is inherited from English common law, where it was established in 1670 in an infamous case where a judge imprisoned and tortured jurors for not returning the verdict the judge wanted.

Because of these two principles, if a jury returns a "not-guilty" verdict, the defendant goes free; even if the verdict seems blatantly contrary to the facts and the law. Even if the jury is blatantly wrong, nobody in the system has any authority to do anything about it — not the judge, not the prosecutor, not the cops.

If you are summoned to be on a jury and you make it clear that you do not intend to judge the case on the facts and the law, you will be dismissed from the jury in voir dire. If you preach nullification to your fellow jurors, you might cause a mistrial: the defendant will not be freed; the court will just get a new jury, and the defendant will go back to jail in the meantime.

A mistrial does not free the defendant. A hung jury (refusing to come to a consensus) does not free the defendant. Only a not-guilty verdict frees the defendant.

[-] el_doso@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

I didn't realize these clarifications - thanks for writing up this info!

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[-] Sylvartas@lemmy.world 29 points 3 days ago

Aight, guess I'll start looking for a better instance

[-] skeezix@lemmy.world -3 points 1 day ago

Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 13 points 3 days ago

If you want a US based-instance

If you want a non US instance

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[-] drmoose@lemmy.world 29 points 3 days ago

So is the manifesto allowed to be posted on .world?

[-] Serinus@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

If it's confirmed, I don't see why not. Depends on the community, of course. I'm sure !lemmybewholesome would remove it.

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[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 51 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

At what point is supporting the prosecution of this assassin advocating for violence? The social murder done by the CEO is so many orders of magnitude greater, and the state will do violence to the killer to defend the industry's right to do social violence.

Nobody was having this conversation when people rightly cheered the deposing of Assad. Guess what? That involved violence, a lot of it. That was state-backed violence too though, so I guess we're all just fine with it.

The state calls its own violence "law" and that of the people "crime".

I guess lemmy.world is happy to just go along with whatever the state wants. It's just insulting that you pretend it's about "violence" and you expect people to believe you.

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[-] kosanovskiy@lemmy.world 33 points 3 days ago

Lol we left reddit for this? Now this is quite an unexpected nullification of jury duties of internet mods. I reject your reality and inject my own ya buncha bozos.

[-] r0ertel@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

I assume you left Reddit for Lemmy for a reason and the beauty of Lemmy (and any federated platform) is that it's not under the control of a single entity. If you don't like what's happening in one instance, you can pick up and go to another instance much easier than it was to switch from Reddit to Lemmy.

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[-] Jamablaya@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

wtf is reddit anymore but a bunch of bots repeating the first comment endlessly

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[-] Baron1avAB0rn@lemmy.world 86 points 4 days ago

Broseph, I can't have sympathy. The income inequality won't let me. People aren't cheering the unaliving necessarily, but the fact that one of these people actually answered for their crimes, in whatever form that took. Because courts weren't gonna make him.

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this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2024
234 points (64.2% liked)

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