Musk says he’ll spend less time working with Trump after Tesla profits sink : usa

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 53 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Peaceful protests across the nation haven't accomplished jack.

Burn a few Teslas to the ground and one of the US's most damaging enemies decides to back off from government.

Shoot a CEO that puts his own greed over human life, and we see other insurers loosen their grip a tad.

...and it goes both ways: carry out an insurrection, claim the presidency.

The system we live in responds exclusively to violence.

We've accomplished a lot, but at the end of the day we're still a bunch of dumb fucking cavemen.

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 5 points 1 month ago

a qoute from star trek episode " if diplomacy fails, violence its the only alternative"- evil janeway.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

These two options are not mutually exclusive.

Do not make it sound like violence is the only option. Peaceful protests invite the community and nurtures rapport.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Peaceful protests invite the community and nurtures rapport.

...alright. So the community shows up and we've all establish rapport. A Nazi is still running the place and rights are dropping like flies.

They're not mutually exclusive - we can do both - but the people in power will continue to ignore anything other than violence.

It all comes down to what the goal is. Different tools for different jobs.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world -4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It is morally wrong to call on others to inflict violence.

Fighting back is not the same as using violence to send a message.

All it does is give the regime a reason to attack peaceful protesters.

Peaceful protests are incredibly powerful because that's all people not working and not buying, and the government can't just arrest thousands and thousands of peaceful people for no reason.

That's why they infiltrate protests with instigators. To give them an excuse to use police violence against peaceful innocent people.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's morally wrong to advocate for a status quo that's wrought with carefully engineered suffering- that includes pretending to advocate against it by pushing methods that have proven ineffective over, and over, and over, and over again.

As far as calling on others to inflict violence, I'm actually paying them quite a lot of money to do exactly that. You are too if you happen to be a US tax payer. So I don't have any issue at all with asking them to stop fucking around and do your job!!

https://www.army.mil/values/oath.html

Every single member of our military is oathbound to engage figures like Donald Trump the same way they do any other enemy of the US... so yeah, if they could maybe take a break from turning brown kids into skeletons and focus on an actual and growing threat to our country, that'd be greeaaat.

Will it happen? Probably not... If it was going to, it would have by now - apparently our military is as stuffed with traitors as our government. But that's not going to stop me from bitching about it: that's about all I have the power to do.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Can you not read?

Peaceful protests are not the only option on the table, but they are one of the most powerful ones available to us.

The government cannot touch a peaceful protest with violence without drawing enormous amounts of anger from the rest of the population.

And the bigger and more regular these protests become, it pulls more and more people out of the labor pool and consumer pool, because nobody is working or buying much of anything on days of protests.

I can tell you have never been to a single one, because if you had, you would know that peaceful protests is where everyone is coordinating and spreading useful information, because you cannot do that online.

People who attend peaceful protests go back home learning about boycotts, sabotage, and feeling connected and inspired by others who feel just like they do.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Can you not recognize patterns?

The on-paper sales pitch you're giving sounds great, but we've tried it. It hasn't worked. When nonviolent protest isn't effective, violent protest becomes inevitable. Even MLK Jr acknowledged that - literally in the middle of lengthy statement encouraging nonviolence.

The system we live in loves to ignore peaceful protests. We love looking at a crowd of people holding angry signs and saying "that'll show em!" ...and nothing changes, so we do it again. "Mission accomplished!" ...and nothing changes, so we do it again. We get headlines like "Protesters have Republicans trembling in fear! or 'fuming'! or 'slammed!' ...and nothing changes, so we do it again. And we go back home learning about boycotts, sabotage, and feeling connected and inspired by others who feel just like they do. ...and nothing changes, so ~~we do it again~~ some dude shoots a CEO dead for denying critical healthcare to millions of people: and claims approval rates skyrocket, controversial policies get rescinded, and the unethical nature of insurers takes the global spotlight for months.

Don't get me wrong - I'd fucking love if we could just yell and angry-carboard all our problems away, but that is pure fantasy. It may well be a therapeutic outlet for the people protesting, but it's not going to change shit. One dude with 3 bullets got more done for humanity than peaceful protests have in the almost 4 decades I've been stuck on this fucking planet.

So, if screaming into the void makes you feel better, by all means do it. I'll even tap my horn and give you a thumbs-up as I'm driving passed you. But again, a hefty chunk of what would be my pay check goes to institutions and individuals whose function revolves around keeping our country intact and destroying our country's enemies. Those institutions and individuals are asleep at the wheel right now while cartoonishly evil motherfuckers rip our country apart from the top, so I'll say again to those people: do your fucking job!

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's very ironic to me you are even bringing up Martin Luther King Jr because it makes my point.

You know how Black people finally got their civil rights?

Lawsuits. Lots and lots and lots of lawsuits.

Look it up if you do not believe me.

Black lawyers and their allies worked tirelessly to sue local, state, and federal institutions. The peaceful protests brought attention to the lawsuits so they could not be ignored and galvanized the Black community and their allies into a movement of orchestrated action.

Millions of people boycotting, even if imperfectly, is fucking devastating for corporate giants and 100% legal.

Violent action will not work because taking down an authoritarian regime is a marathon, not a race.

It's going to take a long time to extirpate all the cancer plaguing our institutions, and violent conflicts just make it take even longer.

I'm sharing a link with you of an interview between John Stewart and Maria Ressa, who is a journalist that was targeted, attacked, arrested, and charged for her criticisms of Rodrigo Duerte.

It's important to note the role that social media manipulation plays us all into thinking that challenges in court and peaceful protests do not work-- they do, just not in a way that is obvious to someone who is not used to fighting against an authoritarian regime.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It’s very ironic to me you are even bringing up Martin Luther King Jr because it makes my point.

Again, MLK Jr himself contradicted you in his own statement. He doesn't place much emphasis on it - he prefers the nonviolent route, 100% - but even he acknowledged that nonviolence ignored leads to violence. It's the Birmingham Jail letter if you're interested - I recommend it.

You know how Black people finally got their civil rights? Lawsuits. Lots and lots and lots of lawsuits. Look it up if you do not believe me.

Lawsuits, nonviolent protests, and you're skipping a pretty important ingredient: violence. Lots of violence. The Black Panthers were standing by with rifles to enforce the efficacy of their nonviolent counterparts. Direct military engagement such as by the 761st Tank Battalion or Tuskegee Airmen, which fostered a huge amount of respect from the nation at large by showing patriotism even in the face of massive discrimination, and -you guessed it- a professional aptitude for violence.

MLK Jr's movement was a subset of a greater movement; his was nonviolent, the rest of it wasn't. If the violent components were removed, the nonviolent components would have failed.

Millions of people boycotting, even if imperfectly, is fucking devastating for corporate giants and 100% legal.

First off, never conflate legality with morality. You strike me as someone who already knows this. Slavery was legal. The Holocaust was legal. Legal only means it's sanctioned by the state, and when that does align with morality: cool, follow the law. When it doesn't align with morality: fuck the law.

In any case, you're correct, we can and should be boycotting corporations that dip below a certain moral standard. That isn't mutually exclusive to violence though - you know what else is devastating to corporate giants? Cutting its head off, which is what Luigi just did to health insurance, and he single-handedly accomplished more for us by a single action than every healthcare related protest or boycott in my entire lifetime. That doesn't mean you shouldn't boycott, that doesn't mean you shouldn't engage in nonviolent protest: but if you find yourself in a room alone with Hitler and you're packing a revolver, that isn't the time to shake your fist at the fucker and explain to him the error of his ways: it's time to pull the trigger.

It’s going to take a long time to extirpate all the cancer plaguing our institutions

Justice delayed is justice denied. That's also addressed in the MLK Jr's Birmingham Jail letter.

and violent conflicts just make it take even longer.

Not according to current events, but we're circling back to the start of this conversation.

It’s important to note the role that social media manipulation plays us all into thinking that challenges in court and peaceful protests do not work-- they do, just not in a way that is obvious to someone who is not used to fighting against an authoritarian regime.

Different tools for different jobs. A paintbrush being really effective for its intended purpose doesn't mean it'll make a good sledge hammer, nor vice versa. You are correct in that there is a great deal of painting that needs to be done; but there are also some walls that need to come down.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Bro, this whole stupid ass conversation started with me saying peaceful protesting is not a mutually exclusive action.

Like, feel free to go be violent or whatever. Just don't talk others into doing it first when you obviously are not willing to do that.

That's why Luigi is an icon, and you are, frankly speaking, a huge hypocrite.

Luigi didn't try to persuade or pressure others into taking a risk he wasn't personally willing to take.

I have seen the power of peaceful protesting.

The boycotts work.

Violence only gives the administration a convenient excuse to hurt us.

Don't fall for it.

The calls for violence are propaganda.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Bro, this whole stupid ass conversation started with me saying peaceful protesting is not a mutually exclusive action.

This whole stupid ass conversation started with me listing examples of violence getting shit done, against the contrast of millions of protesters not accomplishing jack.

Like, feel free to go be violent or whatever. Just don’t talk others into doing it first when you obviously are not willing to do that. That’s why Luigi is an icon, and you are, frankly speaking, a huge hypocrite.

What in our conversation history makes you think I'd be a good candidate? I'm a surgical tech, dude. On the nonexistent chance that Trump winds up in my OR, yeah it'd be an honor to be the one to take action. Failing that, he's surrounded by people with guns who've all sworn an oath to kill him, so why is rubbing you wrong when I ask those people to do their job?

I ask people to do shit that I cannot all the time - that's how specializations work. If my tooth hurts, I'm going to ask a dentist to fix it. If my transmission breaks, I'm going to ask a mechanic to fix it. If my country is under attack, I'm going to ask the people who's job it is to kill the attacker to fix it.

Why is that hypocritical to you? Do you whip out your own drill when your molar starts to ache? Do you learn how to fix a transmission when your car breaks? Cuz if not, what you're doing is called projecting - the hypocrisy here is yours.

Luigi didn’t try to persuade or pressure others into taking a risk he wasn’t personally willing to take.

Cool. And?

I have seen the power of peaceful protesting. The boycotts work. Violence only gives the administration a convenient excuse to hurt us. Don’t fall for it. The calls for violence are propaganda.

You keep making that claim without evidence. I keep refuting it with events that just happened. Like you don't need go dig through a history book to see that violence works (although that would make the case too), you just need to turn on the fucking news.

You're advocating for the preservation of evil people by arguing points that have been shown false. That's propaganda. You're projecting again.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It is morally wrong to call on others to inflict violence.

No.

It is illegal. It is not immoral.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

If you believe violence is necessary, you need to be the one that suffers the consequences of it.

This is a disinformation and manipulation war, and such wars are won with facts and the rule of law.

You are already seeing institutions rising and forming stronger coalitions.

You are already seeing the richest man in the world cry like a fucking pussy, knowing he's completely fucked and hated by the entire world.

You are already seeing Trump panicking and throwing tantrums because he's facing a lot more opposition from the people he thought would go along with the plans.

They're desperate. They want violence from us so they can justice unleashing police and military violence upon us all.

The boycotts work. The sabotage works. The solidarity being spread across the nation through peaceful protesting works.

May 1st.

Show up if you are not a Russian bot spreading hopelessness and fear.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

What rights have Americans gained through exclusively peaceful protest?

[–] Alloi@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

wheelchair accessability.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I can always tell when someone has not ever been to a peaceful protest because they do not understand their true purpose.

The problem is that you are thinking of peaceful protests as the only form of action being suggested, when that it is simply not the case.

What is happening to the United States (and Canada, the Philippines, Turkey, Hungary, etc.) is an incredibly powerful disinformation campaign, meant to spread division, lies, hopelessness, anger, and fear through social media.

Step one to fight back is to get off social media and start engaging with your community directly.

At peaceful protests, you will connect with:

Groups looking for volunteers to organize even bigger protests and form coalitions.
Lists of businesses to boycott
Planned labor strikes and food drives for striking local union members
Sign ups for phone calls and letters to Congressional members calling for action.
Establishing support networks in case disaster strikes the community with first aid training.
Information on how to be prepared in case martial law is enacted and what to do if a protest turns violent.
All kinds of artists and musicians, using their talents to spread the word.
Peaceful protests are the best way to connect with underground and secret coalitions, because it is imperative all coordination takes place completely outside of the Internet for obvious reasons.

There's a lot more happening, so why don't you just attend one and find out for yourself if I'm telling you the truth or not?

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I did attend. The most that happened is i signed up for a lot of email lists and now i get emails that bring me to more events where we don't accomplish things and trade emails.

Not a single thing you have listed involves removing fascists from power.

Thanks for making me feel validated.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You know how Black people finally got their civil rights?

Lawsuits. Lots and lots and lots of lawsuits.

Look it up if you do not believe me.

Black lawyers and their allies worked tirelessly to sue local, state, and federal institutions. The peaceful protests brought attention to the lawsuits so they could not be ignored and galvanized the Black community and their allies into a movement of orchestrated action.

Millions of people boycotting, even if imperfectly, is fucking devastating for corporate giants and 100% legal.

Violent action will not work because taking down an authoritarian regime is a marathon, not a race.

It's going to take a long time to extirpate all the cancer plaguing our institutions, and violent conflicts just make it take even longer.

I'm sharing a link with you of an interview between John Stewart and Maria Ressa, who is a journalist that was targeted, attacked, arrested, and charged for her criticisms of Rodrigo Duerte.

It's important to note the role that social media manipulation plays us all into thinking that challenges in court and peaceful protests do not work-- they do, just not in a way that is obvious to someone who is not used to fighting against an authoritarian regime.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I forgot about the lawsuit that made Hitler voluntarily step down.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hitler committed suicide, dumbass.

Again, peaceful protests are not a mutually exclusive option. They are simply the most accessible and most important in order to amplify labor strikes and boycotting.

Don't fall for the propaganda calls for violence, it's all an excuse to unleash violence upon peaceful protesters.

This marathon against fear and authoritarianism is only going to be won with facts and rule of law.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

My bad i forgot Stalin and Mussolini stepped down after they brought enough lawsuits against them.

Authoritarians only ever leave office when they die

Grow up

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I don't believe peaceful protests have been effective since the civil rights era.

I can't legally justify violence.

What's the third option?

[–] pohart@programming.dev 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They've put a lot of effort into convincing us that it's was only peaceful protests that were effective in the civil rights era. IDK if they were really peaceful but at the time they were certainly called violent.

And the government made sure to make white people genuinely afraid of violence.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

IDK if they were really peaceful but at the time they were certainly called violent.

They worked because the Black Panthers were standing by with rifles, making it pretty clear what the next step would be if the peaceful protests were ignored as they are today. Today's protests are all bark with no teeth to back to up in case barking doesn't do the trick.

...and barking isn't doing the trick.

[–] quetzaldilla@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You can personally perpetuate violence against our oppressors.

Just don't call on others to do so first.

Other options:

Boycott
Sabotage
Organize coalitions to take concerted action

[–] Chivera@lemmy.world 35 points 1 month ago

Keep bullying him

[–] DogPeePoo@lemm.ee 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Also, probably don’t do Nazi salutes on stage for the world to see, you absolute twat waffle.

[–] AlecSadler@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 month ago

Too late, everyone I know ditched theirs and won't buy another. Myself included. Fuck off and die Elon.

[–] loaf@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

He should spend less time on earth.

[–] taco@piefed.social 2 points 1 month ago

Would definitely be a good time to rekindle his push to go to Mars.

[–] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This won't save Tesla.

[–] Chozo@fedia.io 4 points 1 month ago

Or Elon.

[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago

Spin spin spin.

Loser was always going to be out by the end of May. This is spin to pump the stock.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

he is gonna try to lay low for a while

[–] PwnTra1n@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

I hope he lays about 6 feet low

[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

For the rest of his life I hope

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

hes going to do it from the shadows , but doge is still active.

[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 1 points 1 month ago

Leapards everywhere

United States | News & Politics